D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[CRGreathouse]

I thought this was already explained in the back of the Monster Manual under Swarm?

I think its round down.

If it's round down, then none of the swarms listed follow the rule.

I certainly don't see anything explicit in the rMM, and I've read through the section 3 times (twice in the rMM, once in the SRD).

All but one of the swarms in the Fiend Folio follow the (HD/5) round up rule, and the exception has higher damage (that is, it's certainly not rounded down).

Also -- did you see my U-Z CRs?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Gotcha. But, out of curiosity, what does it matter if it's finished or not? Either yourself or Xanatos can answer that. I only ask because I don't see the purpose of "development secrecy", or what have you. Seems kinda pointless in an open discussion.

Well xanatos has intimated that he is happy to email his work to interested parties (or have me email it for him, whichever). I just don't think he wants it to go public yet until its checked over (which of course it would have been had I not been having problems with my copy of Excel).

As to why he doesn't reveal such work in progress openly I can only assume is because he would rather not have to respond to 100+ post threads going through the minutiae of every conceivable detail...but then whats the chances of something like that happening.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

If it's round down, then none of the swarms listed follow the rule.

Okay my mistake, going by the table it looks like we round up.

I can't be expected to remember everything dude!

I certainly don't see anything explicit in the rMM, and I've read through the section 3 times (twice in the rMM, once in the SRD).

All but one of the swarms in the Fiend Folio follow the (HD/5) round up rule, and the exception has higher damage (that is, it's certainly not rounded down).

Page 316 of the rMM has a mini Table of sorts.

Also -- did you see my U-Z CRs?

I did see them, thanks.

I haven't had time to fully go over them as yet (or Sorcicas A's) due to my generally busier schedule Friday + Weekend and a healthy barrage of messages and/or emails.

I will get to address them tomorrow when hopefully I can put all this stuff to bed for good.

Sometimes I think I'd have an easier time as a physicist trying to discover the Theory of Everything.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Page 316 of the rMM has a mini Table of sorts.

Ah, thanks. Yes, that's certainly a HD/5 round up table, though it's capped at 5d6.

I did see them, thanks.

I haven't had time to fully go over them as yet (or Sorcicas A's) due to my generally busier schedule Friday + Weekend and a healthy barrage of messages and/or emails.

I'm not sure that mine are actualy correct. On the upside, all of the work (the particular numbers as well as the 'showing work' aspect) is done by an almost-automated Excel file, so it shouldn't be too hard to fix any mistakes.

 

[kreynolds]

On the upside, all of the work (the particular numbers as well as the 'showing work' aspect) is done by an almost-automated Excel file, so it shouldn't be too hard to fix any mistakes.

Heh. Guess I wasn't the only one with that idea. Sure helped with the dragon I was working. Those age categories can be a nightmare.

EDIT: Excuse me while I fix this...done.

 

[Moobus]

Hello Upper_Krust, everyone! Should probably start by saying this document is a godsend - I almost can't believe how much sense it makes, especially compared to the mess CR is in 3.5.

But I was wondering how well the system scales at very high levels. Looking through the Epic monster CRs, I just don't know that (say) a Hecatoncheire is anywhere near a match for a lone level 100 PC, nevermind a 50/50 opponent. Even a party of fairly standard (read: not min/maxed to hell) level 60 characters should wipe out any monster in the ELH.

Maybe I'm wrong; I've never actually /played/ in a campaign approaching level 30. And I know it's not an issue in practice, but when the first tenet of the system is to make CR equivalent to PC levels, I do get to wondering

 

[kreynolds]

Looking through the Epic monster CRs, I just don't know that (say) a Hecatoncheire is anywhere near a match for a lone level 100 PC, nevermind a 50/50 opponent. Even a party of fairly standard (read: not min/maxed to hell) level 60 characters should wipe out any monster in the ELH.

Maybe I'm wrong; I've never actually /played/ in a campaign approaching level 30.

If I've got this right, the Hecatoncheires is an appropriate moderate challenge for a 27th-level party.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

If I've got this right, the Hecatoncheires is an appropriate moderate challenge for a 27th-level party.

Yep, you got it.

The hecatonchiere (wtf that is...) is CR 111, EL27.

A single 111th level character is EL27.

A party of four 27th level characters is EL27 (CR 108, converts to EL27).

EDIT: I don't know if that's a judgement on whether the system scales upwards or not. I don't really play (or even like) Epic. Blasphemy, I know.

Wulf

 

[Moobus]

If I've got this right, the Hecatoncheires is an appropriate moderate challenge for a 27th-level party.

It would be moderate for a party with PEL 27, or average character level 96-111...which I think is crazy. A lone spellcaster of that level (or even lower) wouldn't blink an eye, when it should be 50/50. Hell, it's probably not too hard to make a level 100 warrior-type (he'd have /how much/ cash?) with AC the Hecatoncheires can't touch.

I have the impression that everything falls apart at those levels anyway, making an accurate CR even less relavent...but surely there's some way to adjust?

Or am I really crazy and the Hecatoncheires would trounce said characters? I suppose I could try to play a few scenarios out...

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It would be moderate for a party with PEL 27, or average character level 96-111...which I think is crazy.

Don't forget, EL 27 is either ONE 111th level character, or FOUR 27th level characters.

A lone spellcaster of that level (or even lower) wouldn't blink an eye, when it should be 50/50. Hell, it's probably not too hard to make a level 100 warrior-type (he'd have /how much/ cash?) with AC the Hecatoncheires can't touch.

Perhaps this is a better test of the system:

Forget the hecawhatsis.

Do four 27th level characters stand a 50/50 against a lone 111th level character?

Wulf