D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[Nifelhein]

I join your chorus!!!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi drnuncheon mate!

OK, having two campaigns - one low-treasure with two multiclassed characters, the other high-treasure with lots of single-classed, PRCed, high statted characters, I think I'm stretching the 'official' CR rules to the breaking point.

What's the latest version of the KR (Krust Rating) rules, and can someone provide a link so I don't have to go through 25 pages of the thread?

Well you can download version 4 in the first post of this thread.

If you email me I can send you version 5.

The Immortals Handbook will have version 6 (which is a slightly tweaked variation of v5) but its only 99% ready at the moment.

 

[Nifelhein]

This makes me wonder... why dn't you upload the v5 pdf? That way we can all get a step closer to the great work to be unveiled soon...

 

[Verequus]

Hi Upper_Krust!

At first, I have to say, that I'm definitively going to buy your Immortals Handbook - it seems to be one the products for D&D, which make it far better than the original rules could provide! Looking so far on my list of replacements, I have next to your book along with the new CR rules a classless system with levels (I never saw a product which gives me that set of rules - if only someone could do exactly, what I want... ) and as a new magic system Elements of Magic.

But EoM leads to a problem, if I want to use your CR-System, simply because you didn't and couldn't take it into account. Before I write a introduction of EoM, please look into the teaser on the ENPublishing website (http://www.enworld.org/enpublishing/), link is in the right upper corner. Thanks.

On several instances I saw in the version 4-pdf references to the cleric, druid(?) and wizard classes, if a monster has those spell casting abilities like one of those classes. Then you stated a CR-modifier, which differed for every class. Why are those classes different regarding the power factor, while the classes themselves are balanced? Is it because only the spellcasting ability has been included? Looking at the general mage class from EoM, would be a difference between several spell list selections regarding this CR-modifier? It is important to have that modifier for your system, but I don't know how I can determine it. On further thought, wouldn't it affect the silver rule, if one allows different classes in a campaign? Psions, Hexblades and other new core classes along with the millions of prestige classes will surely affect that, wouldn't they?

Also I don't understand, how you determined the "THE CHALLENGE RATING - ENCOUNTER LEVEL RELATIONSHIP" table. I can't think of you playtesting every possibility. Alone for the EL 50 the range of CRs lies between 5120 and 6143. Is there a way of extrapolating that?

Can I have the version 5, too? Or is it too much to ask for?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Nifelhein mate!

This makes me wonder... why dn't you upload the v5 pdf? That way we can all get a step closer to the great work to be unveiled soon...

Simply because there was a problem with the treasure rules that couldn't be resolved at the time. So I didn't want to upload something that I knew wasn't complete.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Upper_Krust!

Hey there Rulemaster!

At first, I have to say, that I'm definitively going to buy your Immortals Handbook - it seems to be one the products for D&D, which make it far better than the original rules could provide!

Thanks very much for the kind words.

Looking so far on my list of replacements, I have next to your book along with the new CR rules a classless system with levels (I never saw a product which gives me that set of rules - if only someone could do exactly, what I want... ) and as a new magic system Elements of Magic.

If I am not mistaken another poster here was working on a set of classless rules using my CR system as a basis.

But EoM leads to a problem, if I want to use your CR-System, simply because you didn't and couldn't take it into account. Before I write a introduction of EoM, please look into the teaser on the ENPublishing website (http://www.enworld.org/enpublishing/), link is in the right upper corner. Thanks.

Okay.

On several instances I saw in the version 4-pdf references to the cleric, druid(?) and wizard classes, if a monster has those spell casting abilities like one of those classes. Then you stated a CR-modifier, which differed for every class. Why are those classes different regarding the power factor, while the classes themselves are balanced? Is it because only the spellcasting ability has been included?

Gaining the spells only (rather than the whole class levels) is handled under Integrated Spell Levels.

If you add the full class levels add +0.8 CR/level (or +1 CR/level with equipment).

Although the system breaks the class levels down further at the back (in Appendix 3). Thats primarily for class building.

Looking at the general mage class from EoM, would be a difference between several spell list selections regarding this CR-modifier? It is important to have that modifier for your system, but I don't know how I can determine it.

I presume they balanced the class to be similar to the Wizard. So in the absence of a lengthy study of the material I would say just use the Wizard Integrated Spell Levels.

On further thought, wouldn't it affect the silver rule, if one allows different classes in a campaign? Psions, Hexblades and other new core classes along with the millions of prestige classes will surely affect that, wouldn't they?

Well as long as the new classes were within the parameters for the other classes I wouldn't worry.

Also a number of people do without the Silver Rule.

Also I don't understand, how you determined the "THE CHALLENGE RATING - ENCOUNTER LEVEL RELATIONSHIP" table. I can't think of you playtesting every possibility. Alone for the EL 50 the range of CRs lies between 5120 and 6143. Is there a way of extrapolating that?

I playtested up to about CR 200. The formula worked more or less perfect up to than point and I saw no reason why it wouldn't beyond it.

The actual formula itself is based on the relationship between Experience Points and Levels/CR. Something like x4 EXP = x2 LEVEL/CR.

Can I have the version 5, too? Or is it too much to ask for? [/QUOTE]

Email me and I will send it to you. I don't want to upload it because there are a few minor faults in it and I don't have v6 finished yet.

 

[Kavon]

Hey U_K

If I am not mistaken another poster here was working on a set of classless rules using my CR system as a basis.

Wooh, I got mentioned

Still working on it, yes. I keep getting new ideas on how to do things in the system though, so it'll probably take quite a while still for me to finish it.

I'm not exactly following standard D&D rules though, since I'm primarily making this to work with my own campaign world, and how I want things to work in there..
For example, I've stepped away from spell levels, and all that, and decided on a different spell system entirely.. which is actually more like the one in EoM I guess, though still quite different, and not really finished either. All in all, I think it'll make my campaign quite high magic, which is ok with me, really.

I guess I could make variant rules on how to handle things though.. But that would be something for after I'm done with the basic system (and if I even want to do something with it other than use it in my campaigns).
It would probably depend on how much people want to see it, though I'm not really good at this stuff, and making a topic like this would probably freak me out or something

Email me and I will send it to you.

Hmm.. v5 would probably be useful to me. You still got my email adress?
Or do you want me to send you one of them 'request' things?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K

Hiya Kavon mate!

Wooh, I got mentioned

Still working on it, yes. I keep getting new ideas on how to do things in the system though, so it'll probably take quite a while still for me to finish it.

I'm not exactly following standard D&D rules though, since I'm primarily making this to work with my own campaign world, and how I want things to work in there..
For example, I've stepped away from spell levels, and all that, and decided on a different spell system entirely.. which is actually more like the one in EoM I guess, though still quite different, and not really finished either. All in all, I think it'll make my campaign quite high magic, which is ok with me, really.

I guess I could make variant rules on how to handle things though.. But that would be something for after I'm done with the basic system (and if I even want to do something with it other than use it in my campaigns).
It would probably depend on how much people want to see it, though I'm not really good at this stuff, and making a topic like this would probably freak me out or something

I could probably have helped out more, but I am a tad busy.

Hmm.. v5 would probably be useful to me. You still got my email adress?
Or do you want me to send you one of them 'request' things?

Better emailing me mate, a lot of people don't use their screen name when they email and with my bad memory I can't always remember whos who I'm embarrassed to say.

 

[Kavon]

Hiya Kavon mate!

Hey again U_K

I could probably have helped out more, but I am a tad busy.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. One of my friends is helping me out with testing things out when I've got some things sort of ready (or at least, when I think it's ready). Thanks to him I've already got some nice progress, though I still have allot of work and testing to do.

Better emailing me mate, a lot of people don't use their screen name when they email and with my bad memory I can't always remember whos who I'm embarrassed to say.

Hehe, ok. I'll send an email to you in a bit

 

[Verequus]

Hi Upper_Krust!

Gaining the spells only (rather than the whole class levels) is handled under Integrated Spell Levels.

I presume they balanced the class to be similar to the Wizard. So in the absence of a lengthy study of the material I would say just use the Wizard Integrated Spell Levels.

The general mage is balanced against the normal wizard, but I don't know, how other classes are. Because the power of an EoM mage depends more or less on the gained caster level, regardless of actual class, can I deduce so, that the factor 0.44 has to be multiplied by the caster level of the class gained as a single-classed character in this particular class at level 20 divided by 20? E.g., caster level of 15 at level 20, so the adjusting factor would be 0.75?

One thing, you could have missed through the quick glance, is, that EoM spells are levelled alone through their MP cost. The save DC, for example, is calculated so: 10 + 1/2 MP-cost + CHA-modifier.

DC MP-cost Core spell level
10 0,1 0
11 2,3 1
12 4,5 2
etc.

If you know the psionic power point cost-rules for the level of a power, then you see, that the DCs are regarding the costs shifted down by one point. Now my question: Can I use the formula spell level = 1/2 MP-cost for determining the CR factor for spell-like abilities?

And thanks again, that at least you looked into the teaser - I didn't know, if that was too much to ask for.

@Kavon:
As you have read, I'd really like to see your rules. If you don't have anything against it, I could look into them and give comments on them. I have already experience in that - partly natural, partly because I did the same for the auhtors of EoM (hence the naming of me in the credits ). But I can't promise that I will be really useful - without playtesting one finds only so much errors and other issues and I don't have now a gaming group where I could use such rules.