D&D 5E vampire bites

[iserith]

I don't think it's all that slim. Strahd just waits until the PCs are sleeping and either wakes one up or approaches the one on watch, charms them, then leads them away from the others.

And knowing that, the players choose to use the buddy system when they rest. Or they die.

It's really all in their hands. You don't have to do anything except make sure they are clear on the risks.

 

[Oofta]

I think the rules are pretty clear. Each time the vampire or the vampire's companions do anything harmful to the target they get a save.

It doesn't say anything about the target is willing or not. Just that the vampire does something harmful. Is the bite harmful? Obviously. Therefore the target of the charm gets a save.

 

[shadowoflameth]

Normally, saves are at the end of your own turn. Effects that say you save when x happens mean you save after x happens. In the case of a bite attack, it's still an attack, and still harmful. The bite attack after a charm is what makes it dangerous, and most townfolk are going to be unconscious after one or two rounds of biting. Level appropriate characters have a better that ordinary folks chance to 'snap out of it' which makes for good drama. In the game I DM, high level party was handily defeating a vampire when the druid level 19 took a critical hit on the bite. She's down a bunch of her HP and can't heal. She's also grabbed and about to be finished off. The rest of the party unloads on the blood sucker and saves the day, but the same bite healed the villain a bunch of HP.

 

[pukunui]

I think the rules are pretty clear.

As others have pointed out, the trouble is that the rule goes against traditional portrayals of vampires. Did any of Dracula's victims ever snap out of it mid-feed? I can't think of any. Perhaps in this case, the RAW was clear but the RAI was not.

That being said, I think I am willing to let it slide here. I can see the value in giving players a chance for their beloved characters to "snap out of it" while the vampire is in the middle of feeding on them. They're the heroes after all, not readily disposable NPCs. Besides, there's no guarantee they'll succeed on the saving throw. One might even be inclined to impose disadvantage on subsequent saves since due to the "willing target" aspect ... They're enjoying it too much to want it to stop.

 

[Oofta]

As others have pointed out, the trouble is that the rule goes against traditional portrayals of vampires. Did any of Dracula's victims ever snap out of it mid-feed? I can't think of any. Perhaps in this case, the RAW was clear but the RAI was not.

That being said, I think I am willing to let it slide here. I can see the value in giving players a chance for their beloved characters to "snap out of it" while the vampire is in the middle of feeding on them. They're the heroes after all, not readily disposable NPCs. Besides, there's no guarantee they'll succeed on the saving throw. One might even be inclined to impose disadvantage on subsequent saves since due to the "willing target" aspect ... They're enjoying it too much to want it to stop.

Well, the PCs are heroes, not buxom villagers ... I mean commoners.

I dunno it kind of adds to the horror aspect to me. The dreamy eyed PC willingly lets the vamp bite their neck and suddenly starts to struggle against the grasp (they still need to break the grapple) as they realize what's happening, what they willingly let the blood sucking freak do to them.

I agree on the disadvantage, especially since this is Strahd. I practically drained one of my PCs dry with a vamp a while back because they couldn't make their save. Ahh, fun times!

 

[pukunui]

OK, so get this: my players are so afraid of Strahd that they just let him charm one of the PCs and walk off with her without trying to stop him. I let the player of the charmed PC make a few Wisdom saves with disadvantage. He failed them all. That PC is now going to be another of Strahd's vampire spawn consorts.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

This underlines the value of the Protection from Good & Evil spell. When hunting vampires, never leave the castle without it.

 

[pukunui]

This underlines the value of the Protection from Good & Evil spell. When hunting vampires, never leave the castle without it.

Can't cast it on the whole party, though. The mystic did try to get his Psychic Redoubt up to give the rogue advantage on her Wisdom save, but he wasn't fast enough.

I think I will give them one last chance to save the rogue, though, simply because Strahd really wants to goad her brother into fighting him. I'll have him bite her once before they leave, just to see what the fighter will do. (His player is loathe to attack after being sucked almost dry by the vampire spawn in Vallaki. His hp max is only 19, down from 52!) I'll give the rogue a new save with disadvantage when he bites her. If she fails, and if the others still do nothing, then Strahd will take her away to the castle and turn her into a minion. (If they do attack, some of his minions will show up to cover his escape.)

 

[LordEntrails]

For me it's simple and not about RAW/RAI. I've never been a fan of save or die; or any situation where a single die roll on an otherwise perfectly healthy character results in death. It's not just fun for me, as a player or a DM.

So, not allowing a player a chance to recover from a single bad die roll, is not the way I play the game. Therefore, in your situation, my ruling would be that the PC gets a save after each bite.

 

[iserith]

Saying that a failed saving throw against a vampire's charm is save-or-die - given a ruling that the charm isn't potentially broken by a bite - is forgetting (or ignoring) the fact that, in most cases, the charmed PC isn't going to be alone. They are going to be able to do something about it. [MENTION=54629]pukunui[/MENTION]'s players just chose not to.

There are plenty of reasons not to like "save-or-die" effects, but this isn't "save-or-die."