D&D 5E (2014) vampire bites

[cmad1977]

I'd be cool with either.


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[iserith]

Huh. Not as much consensus on this as I was expecting. Still not sure which way I should rule.

Of course, it only matters if Strahd can actually get a PC alone, but that shouldn't be too hard if the PC is charmed. All he has to do is say "Come with me." As long as he can stop the other PCs from following, he's sweet.

Is the vampire's charm really meant to be a save-or-die effect? I'm just not sure ...

It's not a save-or-die effect though. Circumstances have to align almost perfectly for that to happen on top of failing the save. As long as the players are aware of the risk, they can take steps to stop those circumstances from unfolding. There are quite a few class features and spells that either prevent charming, grant advantages to saves against charm effects, or end the charmed condition. If they are aware of the risks and do nothing about it, that's at their own peril.

 

[Lanliss]

I would say yes, a new save each time they get bitten. However, IIRC, the Vampire only needs to bite once, then they can suck the PC dry without triggering any saves. One-failed-save=Death is bad, but what about 2 failed saves?

 

[Bawylie]

Some considerations.

RL is the horror genre, by default. So unless you're changing that, a certain amount of powerlessness and vulnerability are expected, warranted, justified.

Strahd is the campaign villain. So again, expectations tend toward his having better-than-normal capabilities.

Therefore, in a normal game of D&D in a heroic fantasy setting/genre, I'd definitely proc another save. But in RL with this particular vampire, I'd telegraph the h*ck out of it and go ahead and make it save or die.


-Brad

 

[pukunui]

I can see where you guys are coming from, and part of me wants to roll with that. It's just another part of me still isn't sure it's fair.

By the way, I think I have already telegraphed it once in the campaign. The party was staying in the Kreszkovs' house for the night, after fighting wights that had risen to stop them from recovering the sunsword in the abbey garden. The players stated that they'd set a watch, and I randomly determined which one was on watch when Strahd knocked on the window. The player had his PC go and open the window, without bothering to wake any of his companions, and Strahd successfully charmed him.

Strahd asked the PC to let him in, but the player was clever enough to say that since it wasn't his PC's house, he didn't think he could let him in, so instead Strahd asked him to climb out the window to him. The PC's hit points were already quite low from the fight with the wights, so he dropped to 0 after only one suck from Strahd ... but I didn't have Strahd kill him. Instead, the other PCs woke in the morning to find the window open and their companion lying on the ground outside, cold and pale but still alive. Oh, and the sunsword was gone.

I am curious to see if, the next time Strahd knocks at their window, the PC on watch has the presence of mind to wake up the others first. If not, then OK, I guess they were stupid and deserve to get sucked dry. Strahd's definitely going to kill a PC next time he gets a chance. They let Ireena escape through the pool in Krezk, and they keep refusing his invitations to the castle, so he's starting to get fed up with them.



EDIT: As an aside, I note that Chris Perkins has said (on Twitter) that a vampire's charm is strong enough to force a PC to fight the other PCs. (I got the same response from Jeremy Crawford about a cambion's charm as well a while back.)

 

[iserith]

so he's starting to get fed up with them.

Heh heh. Fed.

I'd say you've telegraphed sufficiently. Maybe have Van Richten or whoever tell them about the power of Strahd's charming gaze one last time before they go to the castle to underscore that it doesn't necessarily work like charm person and you're good.

 

[pukunui]

Heh heh. Fed.

I am a poet and didn't even know it.

I'd say you've telegraphed sufficiently. Maybe have Van Richten or whoever tell them about the power of Strahd's charming gaze one last time before they go to the castle to underscore that it doesn't necessarily work like charm person and you're good.

Yes, they've got Ezmerelda with them. I'm thinking of having her confront them with a bit of a "Do you even know what you're up against? Have you any idea what a vampire can do to you?" speech while they're resting.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It's not a save-or-die effect though. Circumstances have to align almost perfectly for that to happen on top of failing the save. As long as the players are aware of the risk, they can take steps to stop those circumstances from unfolding. There are quite a few class features and spells that either prevent charming, grant advantages to saves against charm effects, or end the charmed condition. If they are aware of the risks and do nothing about it, that's at their own peril.

Not to mention, most PCs aren't alone, which is really required to totally crew over that PC if they fail the initial save. So the chances of a PC just being fed on to death are still pretty slim in most situations.

 

[pukunui]

Not to mention, most PCs aren't alone, which is really required to totally crew over that PC if they fail the initial save. So the chances of a PC just being fed on to death are still pretty slim in most situations.

I don't think it's all that slim. Strahd just waits until the PCs are sleeping and either wakes one up or approaches the one on watch, charms them, then leads them away from the others.

FWIW, this is what Jeremy has to say about it:

 

[Dualazi]

Ultimately I'd have to agree to some extent with Jeremy's ruling, but I don't want to on an emotional level. The Vampire is supposed to be THE archetypal horror foe, and an iconic undead threat, and I really don't think it lives up to that in its present incarnation. You can dig up some of the earlier threads on people's experiences with Strahd, but there's pretty huge variance in his effectiveness from what people have posted. The charmed = dead conundrum is really only a more powerful version of existing save-or-die effects like Bodak's stare or the Medusa's Gaze.

Additionally, even under RAW nothing really stops it from being a lone insta-kill. The target "regards the vampire as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected" and this lasts for 24 hours. The vampire can still charm the night watch, and simply ask him to come with him somewhere he has no real chance of fighting back. Parties intending to fight vampires will either need additional eyes watching for shenanigans or magic countermeasures like alarm. Which, let's be honest here, is how it should be. You want players to take the vampire seriously as a threat and adjust their expectations and strategies accordingly.