VorpalBunny
Sorry to de-rail for a minute, but I have to ask wouldn't a ranger's favored enemy be (humanoid [elves]) for a drow FE? For the same reason that a bugbear FE would be listed as (humanoid [goblinoids]).
I'm inclined to say it would just be FE: Goblinoid, partially because of how you can't take all Humanoids as a Favored Enemy, and party because you can take all members of an organization as a FE regardless of the individual races/etc that makes up that organization. So FE(Goblinoid) would then apply to all goblinoids, including templated goblinoids as long as they retained the subtype (so lich hobgoblin yes, skeleton hobgoblin no)
Again, just my take on things. There's very little published information dealing with subtype, unfortunatly.
LokiDR
Rule wise, neither would work. The vampire template changes type, the very thing that most of this abilities are based on. The only arguement I see against this in the rules the fact that sub-type stays. I don't think that drow fit a sub-type, they are just humanoid. The same situation on Bugbear vampire would work under this argument.
Technically the template changes type, but doesn't mention subtype either way. Drow are part of the Humanoid (Elf) subtype - dono if they'd hold their own subtype [Humanoid (Elf, Drow)] or not. Personally I'd be inclined to say no on that one. For the Bugbear - Humanoid(Goblinoid) - vamping it would turn it to Undead (Goblinoid). Least that's how I see it. ^_^
From flavor point of view, I would probably not allow FE damage. All those vulnerable spots you studied are not really there any more. I could probably go either way
Yup, part of the 'no discernable anatomy' problem. I don't really like how FE is totally useless against Undead, etc. There's the suggestion in the DMG, in the modifying classes section (p25-27ish) about having an Undead Hunter type class that would get FE or Sneak Attack against undead. I dono, I think if you want to have an undead hunting ranger, you should get something for devoting some of your favored enemy bonuses.
Solana
i believe it says some where in the description in the rancor attack for maybe the foe hunter or the hunded hunter that a rancor attack affects undead.
Yup, MotW, p57. Left colum, toward the bottom of the Rancor description.
The extra damage from a rancor attack applies even if that hated enemy is immune to critical hits.
If you slice a drows throat ear to ear does it hurt as a vampire, damn right
Not in the same way that it would hurt a normal, living drow.. no. It would sure be inconvienant, though. Nah, for undead it would be more like.. well, drow tend to move in Such-and-Such way when defending themselves, which leaves this joint open to attack. Which, for undead, if damaged, could seriously cramp their style.
Caliban
So if you have favored enemy "Giant" and fought and half-Dragon Giant, or an Undead Giant, your favored enemy bonuses wouldn't apply because they are not technically giants.
Hmm. Raises an interesting question concerning subtype - would an undead Fire Giant that was made undead via a template, (rather than like an animate dead spell), still be immune to fire and take double damage from cold?
Personally, I think that as long as they retain their intelligence, they should retain their old type as well. They would merely gain the attribute of being "Undead" or "Dragon" in addition their other attributes. But that's not the way it works in the core rules.
Agreed. Ideally, a template could just -add- an additional type rather than subsume the old one entirely. So a half dragon/half giant would be say a Large Size Giant/Dragon with any applicate subtype. Would take a little work with Savage Species, but shouldn't be too hard to bang out house rules for.
LokiDR(again)
Most half-dragons were born that way. I would say makes them different enough from a "normal" giant to make FE not apply, from a logical point of view.
True, they were born that way, but I disagree with you on the FE thing.
Undead templates tend to have an alignment shift. That, along with vastly different powers should mean that they have a different enough outlook to make FE not apply. Maybe not at first, be definately after a few hundred years.
Heh, again I disagree - Favored Enemy (Goblinoids) applies to Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, and (uh.. I think..) Dekanter Goblins equally, even though they all have different habbits, even amongst the same race but different from region to region, tribe to tribe. Particularly with the application of post-creation templates (mainly undead ones, but lycanthrope as well) a creature's mannerisms and habbits are going to stay
roughly the same. In-born templates are a bit more tricky, in that regard.
As for the alignment shift.. I don't think that's an issue. FE (Elves) works against CG wood elves and LE wood elves just as effectivly. Heck, it works against drow, wood elves, and aquatic elves equally too. If you choose to have a culture-based FE (say, Thayvians) then it would work against all races from that culture (for Thay.. humans, gnolls, etc.. all as long as they're raised in the Thayvian way)
But others may disagree. It isn't bad situation either way.
Heh, true. Not a massive, pressing issue. Kinda fun to discuss, really. Definitly not as touchy as discussing alignment, that's for sure.
^_^
