Vampire Question

[Jack Simth]

True, it would be more humane to feed from cattle, but what true child of the night would lower himself to suckling the blood from a mule?!? No, only the finest vintage for me, no whores or dockside labourers, no filthy commoners...only the finest...

.... so go with well-bred Heavy Warhorses (400 gp each, 4 HD). Humans are much more common fare than those.

 

[Geoff Watson]

the Campaign Im playing in is about to introduce a Vampire into the Party. Some how this Vampire is LN ( yes i said LN) HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??


I am playing a Paladin and i dont know what to do. the Vampire isnt evil, for some reason, and im supposed to be fine with it and allow the vampire to join? Since he isnt evil I shouldnt have a problem with it, but common sense says something it wrong. He is required to drink 2 Pints of blood a day and if he doesnt he looses 1 point of Constutition. If he reaches 0 constitution than he goes crazy and will kill everything in sight.

I need some tips on how to resolve this problem. Ive already been threatoned my multiple PC's that if I harm the Vamp in any way they will kill me. What should I do?

I dont want to have to spend ALL DAY looking over my shoulder incase he decides to turn on us. PLZ HELP!!!!

The vampire is lying and using something that thwarts your Detect Evil. He's obviously untrustworthy, so get rid of him at the first opportunity.

Geoff.

 

[Tatsukun]

Re: Vampires sleeping, maybe they do it out of pure boredom. You can only concentrate on something so long in a day (in DnD it’s 8 hours) then you just have to relax. Maybe laying in the coffin is flavor text, but any PC needs some down time.

Re: Paladins. I am sick to death of people playing paladins like inquisitors. Hating a person for something he IS, rather than something he has DONE is prejudice. Prejudice is an evil temptation that Paladins should resist. This new PC is the ultimate example of what a paladin believes, that all people can be brought to the light.

Instead of spending time creating infighting in the party (which makes the game less fun for all) why not set up a cool story line form it? You could guide him to the path, and ultimately try to get him to go LG. You could protect him from simple-minded village folk who can’t see past his um, “race”. You could help him avenge himself on the one who turned him. You could help him make amends with all those he hurt before he turned LN (If there are any such people).

In short, don’t make the game suck because of another player’s choice of PC. Make it fun. You can start off not quite trusting him, maybe hanging garlic in your tent at night, or getting a silver necklace. After a while, he starts to gain your trust and you see that he’s NOT evil, and that he deserves your help just as much as the (hypothetical) LN rogue in the party.

As for hating all undead, is he even undead? He has a CON score, so he’s alive!

-Tatsu

 

[lonesoldier]

.... so go with well-bred Heavy Warhorses (400 gp each, 4 HD). Humans are much more common fare than those.

Anyone have suggestions on classes for a vampire? I'm currently a Bard/Swashbuckler going for the Duelist PrC.

 

[Qvintus]

Dont all undead ping on detect evil?
But my advise.... is you cant kill/hurt some one who has'nt done any thing wrong and the vampire have'nt done any thing evil yet. So you cant kill him and be a good person, good people dont kill other people because they think the other people are evil they have to know, so keep him closs that way you can detect if he does something that have to be stopped

 

[Hawken]

He is required to drink 2 Pints of blood a day and if he doesnt he looses 1 point of Constutition. If he reaches 0 constitution than he goes crazy and will kill everything in sight.

Is this character actually a Vampire or maybe a Vampyre or even a Dhampir (Half Vampire)? The last two have Con scores, so what you said about blood makes sense for them. However, Vampires don't have Con to lose. In Ravenloft they gain a negative level for each day they go without 4 Con points worth of blood and when reduced to 1 level, they go insane and after anything with blood.

He has a CON score, so he’s alive!

Not necessarily. The DM could be using Con only as a measure of how long the vampire can go without before turning crazy and killing things.

If a non-evil ghost manifested and asked your paladin to help bring it's murderers to justice, would you help the ghost?

Ghosts don't drain the blood of the living. Vampires do.

Also, go over the Paladin description. There's something in that code of conduct about punishing those that harm or threaten innocents. Now monsters and killers may not be innocent souls, but they would be innocent of deserving to have their blood sucked out. Animals and people too for that matter. And the part about associates reads that the paladin will not continue to associate with someone that offends their moral code. And it seems like this vampire, LN or not, is offensive to your character, or at least should be. So, if the pally's friends want the vamp over the pally, then have the pally go on "vacation" and start a new character while the vamp is with the group. And if the pally's friends have already stated they'll go after the pally if he does anything to the vamp, they're not really the kind of friends the pally would want to be around.

As a DM, I'd strip a paladin's powers for running around with a vampire, unless the PCs were doing their best to get that character back among the living. Draining blood is torture, regardless of the reasons behind it, and torture is an evil act. Hence why there are NO good vampires. And the idea of getting a bunch of mules or horses to drain is torturing not just one but several creatures and if the paladin goes along with that, he should soon be pondering the benefits of being a Fighter.

Look at the TV series Angel. It tried to present him as a Hero because he helped people. But when it came down to it, he was still a killer that drank the blood of others. He did good out of a sense of guilt, a desire for redemption or to stop others that were more evil than him, not any real sense of altruism. In one of the last episodes, he murdered a character that was essentially a paladin just so he could maintain an "image" of being a genuine bad-guy, even signed a contract refusing redemption or a soul or whatever forEVER.

Vampires can be presented as romantic, exotic, troubled, misunderstood, whatever. But when it comes down to it, by their very nature, they are Evil whether their alignment says so or not. Its what you do that shows whether you are evil, not your mindset or how you think or believe. Evil people rarely ever think they are evil. This vampire may think he's being LN, but the first time he takes blood from some person or animal, he's just committed an evil act by intentionally inflicting harm on someone else. And if the paladin condones that, then he has just sinned by allowing something evil to occur when it could have been prevented.

But my advise.... is you cant kill/hurt some one who has'nt done any thing wrong and the vampire have'nt done any thing evil yet. So you cant kill him and be a good person, good people dont kill other people because they think the other people are evil they have to know

Vampires are evil. They have to drain the life from others just to continue to exist. As soon as that paladin (or anyone else for that matter) meets that vampire, they know that others have come to harm otherwise the vampire wouldn't be standing there. And good people do kill other people because they think others are evil without knowing. It has happened throughout history and to this day is happening. Liches can be Good because they don't have to hurt the living to continue to exist, same with ghosts. Vampires do, daily. So, you can kill vampires just for being vampires and be Good. They are monsters. The MM doesn't just say they are Chaotic Evil, but that they are ALWAYS Chaotic Evil. It was written that way for a reason.

 

[Alzrius]

There is an old Novel for Ravenloft that featured a "good vampire". Jandar Sunstar or
something like that was his name. He basically was bitten and turned into a vampire
but did not want to be one. He would go out into the forest and feed off animals but
never enough to kill them. Occasionally he would go into the prison and feed off the
criminals. So, I think someone who was turned into a vamp. could essentially be LN.

IIRC, Jander Sunstar was CN (and CG to begin with).

I believe it is the elven baelnorn from monsters of Faerun?

IIRC, the book also has rules for archliches, which are good-aligned liches.

 

[Joker]

There's also (albeit a very small) section on Good Liches in Libris Mortis.

Hawken, most of you said was a matter of opinion. To me, if a society condones the killing of animals such as cow and sheep for survival, why would it be inherently evil for the vampire to feed on life-stock? Because it's torturing the cow? What if the vampire killed the cow first, would that make it better? I'm not being snarky, I was just wondering.

I can personally see a person being bitten and turning into a vampire but with strength of will to stay "humane" and limit himself to cattle. But that's just a matter of my opinion .

 

[Hawken]

Hawken, most of you said was a matter of opinion.

The first half was not. Then I prefaced the rest with "As a DM". So? Not being snarky either, but much of what goes on this board is the opinion of people trying to interpret rules.

if a society condones the killing of animals such as cow and sheep for survival, why would it be inherently evil for the vampire to feed on life-stock? Because it's torturing the cow? What if the vampire killed the cow first, would that make it better? I'm not being snarky, I was just wondering.

First, you're presuming that vampires can feed off livestock. There is nothing in the core books that states vampire's feeding habits and rules. Libris Mortis is a supplemental book so whatever is there is optional. Maybe cow blood can't sustain. It's up to that game's DM. But for the sake of your point, let's say they can. Now, the society you mention is a presumably human created society. If they consider animal slaughter as acceptable (not evil), then that is their rules as humans--it is still evil to kill other living beings, but not in the eyes of that society. Why would it be evil for a vamp to feed on cattle? For one, it is intentionally inflicting pain and suffering on another living being. Animals hunt and kill because they are beasts that live by instinct and don't know any better. But for sentient beings to intentionally inflict harm on others, regardless of motive, is a cruel act. Vampires are sentient, they have a choice. They may not have any options, but they have a choice. Their very existence is already unnatural, but for them to continue to exist they have to intentionally inflict pain and suffering on others. They are not born, they are made. The process of their creation could make them evil, but even if someone with enough will was able to keep his "good" or "neutral" moral position, it wouldn't last for long when it realized it must daily inflict pain on other living beings to continue to exist when it no longer should exist.

You also need to consider that society's rules are for its members. Vampires are not legitimate members of that society, they are outside of it. Vampires prey on people. People are to vampires as what cows are to people. I'm sure if you had a society of vampires, they wouldn't think it was evil to feed on people. That doesn't mean it's not evil though. Just because you can get a lot of people to say something is not evil doesn't mean its not evil, it just means a lot of people are wrong.

And if the vamp just killed the cow first, he probably wouldn't get anything from that blood. Vamps, in no story I've ever read, have ever been able to get sustenance from blood taken from the dead.

I can personally see a person being bitten and turning into a vampire but with strength of will to stay "humane" and limit himself to cattle.

Strength of will is often not enough. A vampire limiting himself to cattle is not something it can control. It's up to the DM of the game to decide if cow blood can actually do for a vamp what human(oid) blood can. And if so, why would the vamp subject himself to that? That would be like Donald Trump eating those greasy hotdogs at a 7-11 every meal when he is surrounded by a much higher caliber of food. When you go to a buffet, you don't eat the mac & cheese, you get the prime rib, crab legs, steak, all the things you normally want to eat but aren't usually able to. A vampire in a human society is like a hungry person walking around in a buffet. You eat there, you don't leave, go to the grocery store and get a pack of Ramen. Eventually, you'll get sick of it, if you did do that, and that nice, juicy steak (human), just walking around right there is going to seem a lot more appetizing, and heaven forbid that juicy steak (human) bleeds! (Assuming you like steak), when was the last time you had a good filet mignon served up for you, juicy, tender, and with an aroma that just sets your mouth to watering. Did you just push it away and say, "Nope. I'm just going to eat a few gummy bears!"?

And just for the paladin in question, there are no Good religions that condone the consumption of blood, in real life or D&D, afaik. That may not specifically be written in the PHB or Faiths & Pantheons, but I definitely don't see a paladin of any of those Good gods hanging out with a vamp that says it is not evil. So, for that paladin to hang around with a creature that is a walking sacrilege to his religion and faith is something that could not be possible without the paladin jeopardizing or outright losing his powers.

And if the game is in Ravenloft, then that vamp may think it's LN, but after a few failed Powers Checks from feeding off the living (which would be murder at worst, or at best unprovoked or grievous assault; all of which cause Powers Checks), it would be swiftly going back to the CE it started from.

 

[LordBOB]

i believe the background of this VAMP is that his VAMP mother was raped by a HUMAN soldier and than the baby was born as a HALF VAMP ( i think )

I think that since he was born this way and not turned into a VAMP by another VAMP is the reason he had a CONST. score and is considered alive.

As read above I have to agree with the whole acts of evil by torturing aminals by draining their blood but not killing them. I also think he wants to drink the blood of the Emenies that we encounter and destroy therefore we wouldnt be killing anything since its already dead. Would this work?

Im going to have to talk with the DM about this matter and honestly i still dontknow what im going to do.