Vampire Question

[Joël of the FoS]

Indeed, the best D&D material ever about undead is from the Ravenloft setting! The Ravenloft rules for blood requirements is well thought and balanced.

However, I found a fun netbook about vampires - "the Immortals". The author converted many classic litterature vampires to 3e stats, including the Ann Rice vampire. You can read my review of this book at : http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/DR_Pages/D20_Products.htm

Regards,

Joël

 

[Hawken]

i believe the background of this VAMP is that his VAMP mother was raped by a HUMAN soldier and than the baby was born as a HALF VAMP ( i think )

Who thought that one up? I'm not insulting anyone, but that line wasn't really thought through. Vampires are not alive. They cannot reproduce. I could see if a pregnant woman was infected by a vampire and gave birth before dying (like in Blade). But that's about the only way to come up with a half vampire.

Like I said earlier, half-vampires are called Dhampir in Ravenloft and the Denizens of Dread book has a good write up on them, but they only need to feed once a week.

I also think he wants to drink the blood of the Emenies that we encounter and destroy therefore we wouldnt be killing anything since its already dead. Would this work?

That should definitely go against the paladin's sense of honor. Desecrating corpses is taboo in almost every culture and every religion. Since the paladin is already established in the group, I'd suggest having the other player come up with a different character. Paladins and vampires shouldn't work together unless its like the end of the world or something. They are supposed to be paragons of goodness and virtue, examples for others to strive for. If one could be talked out of standing by his convictions and hanging with a vampire, I'd say he just talked himself out of being a paladin.

In the Ravenloft PHB, it states that all vampires have to gain their sustenance from living beings. But it also says animals and fresh (recently deceased) corpses may be used for blood, but doing so is not as nourishing as from humanoids and requires twice as much blood to be drained (8 CON points worth instead of the usual 4). If your game is in Ravenloft, there you go. If not, it's up to your DM to decide on that or come up with his own plan for it.

 

[LordBOB]

Who thought that one up? I'm not insulting anyone, but that line wasn't really thought through. Vampires are not alive. They cannot reproduce. I could see if a pregnant woman was infected by a vampire and gave birth before dying (like in Blade). But that's about the only way to come up with a half vampire.

Ok since you say they cant reproduce than couldnt you say that the males are sterile?

If so than you couldnt have a half vamp no matter how you look at it. All im saying is that SOMEHOW he is considered a 1/2 vamp. when i get his character sheet and am able to copy it ill show you the race stats and other stuff like that

 

[Hawken]

I'm not saying there aren't any, just that the only way they really could come about would be a circumstance like in Blade. And I didn't mean to come across as hostile either.

Vamps are sterile (in the reproductive sense). Their bodies are dead, including sperm and eggs. The males are impotent too. Heart doesn't beat so blood doesn't flow, no blood pressure, no erection.

Dhampir can be kind of cool and if that's what the character really is, then its possible, though not likely that one could get along with the paladin--as long as the part about feeding NEVER comes up.

 

[LordBOB]

i know something must be done i just dont know what it is yet. Ill be having a nice talk with the DM shortly

 

[Saeviomagy]

That should definitely go against the paladin's sense of honor. Desecrating corpses is taboo in almost every culture and every religion. Since the paladin is already established in the group, I'd suggest having the other player come up with a different character. Paladins and vampires shouldn't work together unless its like the end of the world or something. They are supposed to be paragons of goodness and virtue, examples for others to strive for. If one could be talked out of standing by his convictions and hanging with a vampire, I'd say he just talked himself out of being a paladin.

Nothing in the paladin's code talks about 'desecrating corpses', if that even IS what we're talking about here. I suppose in your games that looting the dead, or even just leaving them lying, because you're in a hurry, all count as big nonos for a paladin, hmm? Instant loss of paladinhood, right? No warning either, I guess.

Nothing in the paladin's code talks about working with undead.

It's pretty specific. No evil acts, act honorably, help those in need, don't associate with evil.

In the Ravenloft PHB, it states that all vampires have to gain their sustenance from living beings. But it also says animals and fresh (recently deceased) corpses may be used for blood, but doing so is not as nourishing as from humanoids and requires twice as much blood to be drained (8 CON points worth instead of the usual 4). If your game is in Ravenloft, there you go. If not, it's up to your DM to decide on that or come up with his own plan for it.

It sounds like the DM has done so. Saying that the paladin should slay the guy regardless seems more than a little silly.

However, just one point: Under the standard rules, ALL undead detect as evil, no matter what their alignment. It might be worth checking with your DM as to this aspect of the spell. Otherwise the guy is DEFINATELY fooling your senses, and should immediately be suspect...

 

[LordBOB]

i might get chewed out about this comment but oh well.

The thing i try and do is convert all that are willing to the side of good. If this VAMP wants to be a good person and is willing to prove it than I say why not. If he wishes to become a follower of the light side and stay in the path of the worthy than who am I to try and stop him?

I know a Paladin is supposed to rid the world of evil but if instead the evil is willing to give up its wickidness and become good than no one should try and take that away. I indeed will try and do this but if the VAMP messes up to much than ill be forced to turn up the heat.

 

[Hawken]

Nothing in the paladin's code talks about 'desecrating corpses', if that even IS what we're talking about here. I suppose in your games that looting the dead, or even just leaving them lying, because you're in a hurry, all count as big nonos for a paladin, hmm? Instant loss of paladinhood, right? No warning either, I guess.

If you're going to quote me, keep in the correct context. There's nothing in the paladin's code of conduct in the PHB about that because it would likely take the entire book to codify exactly what a paladin can and cannot get away with. And if you think that all the paladin has to do is obey the few rules in that code to stay a paladin, then such a paladin could easily be a villain so long as he just follows those rules.

And you suppose wrong on all counts in my game. And you'll never get the chance to know, I wouldn't have a person with your attitude in my game if I was paid! You don't know me. You sound like you've got your own ideas for paladins, so good for you. You stick with that if that's what makes you happy. Might want to lay off all the assumptions, everyone knows what happens when you assume....

Part of the "act with honor" from their code extends to fallen enemies, imc. Treat them with honor in death as in life. I've never read any novels or heard of any tales where paladins would desecrate or loot corpses or condone such actions. And definitely not allowing a vampire to feed on the recently dead--which is what the context of that point was.

Nothing in the paladin's code talks about working with undead.

That's right, and they shouldn't unless it is a very extreme circumstance--which I've already stated.

It's pretty specific. No evil acts, act honorably, help those in need, don't associate with evil.

That's right, and undead register as evil. So, you've just seconded a point I've been making. Thank you.

Saying that the paladin should slay the guy regardless seems more than a little silly.

I didn't. I just stated that the paladin shouldn't work with a vampire. There's no compelling reason for him to do so, but since it's a half-vampire, that can be worked on.

Just out of curiosity, LordBOB, you never stated if the game was a Ravenloft game or not. Is it? You've got the right idea about paladins. They are supposed to get rid of evil, but it doesn't always have to be by the end of a blade. Redemption is always harder than violence and the reward should be greater too. If you can get the half-vamp to do good, that would be great and could make for an interesting campaign. Just keep in mind the consequences of that half-vamp having to feed.

 

[Saeviomagy]

And you suppose wrong on all counts in my game. And you'll never get the chance to know, I wouldn't have a person with your attitude in my game if I was paid! You don't know me.

No, but I do know that you sound like paladins are all but unplayable in your game.

Part of the "act with honor" from their code extends to fallen enemies, imc. Treat them with honor in death as in life. I've never read any novels or heard of any tales where paladins would desecrate or loot corpses or condone such actions. And definitely not allowing a vampire to feed on the recently dead--which is what the context of that point was.

So, when a foe is defeated and is wielding a magical sword, your paladin forces the party to leave it with the body? Same for all the rest of the gear? Like I said - sounds like you make paladins unplayable.

Further: The paladin has only a few options - especially when running with your "vampires must eat people" line.
1) The vampire is allowed to feed on fallen foes.
2) The vampire doesn't feed on fallen foes, goes crazy and feeds on just anyone.
3) The vampire is killed despite being non-evil

As far as I can see, all three of those are going against the paladin's code.

Finally - I think any DM who looks to force the paladin to commit code infractions is being a complete jerk. Doing so usually requires the DM to be really loose with the definition of what counts as an infraction. That's what I see you doing with "draining blood is torture, so it's evil" + "drinking blood of a fallen foe is desecration, so it's evil" + "you must drink the blood of a humanoid". I honestly don't see how you could not come to the conclusion that any paladin must be a pacifist vegetarian if your definition of evil is quite so broad.

 

[Felnar]

Where does it say all undead detect as evil?
a lawful good ghost detects as evil?