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Vampire question

D'karr

Adventurer
Besides support which many interesting classes just did not really receive (Runepriest, etc.). My biggest/only complaint with the vampire is that I think it would have integrated better as a theme, or as a race swap similar to the revenant.

It would have been aptly compartmentalized and the design could have been tied to that much better instead of attempting to make is a class. The benefits of the class could have been integrated into the race or the theme.

As an example I look at the story of Strahd Von Zarovich. Initially he was a warrior, then he dabbled in the dark arts, and when he killed his brother and the dark powers came to claim him he became a vampire, but he did not lose his past.
 

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sabrinathecat

Explorer
Yes, building it as a race would have been way better. The class isn't bad, if you want the classic flavor, but have it be the race, with the option of the class, or another class, and a rider to the "used to be ____", and the feat that allows partial access to the previous race's feats or race powers.
Heck, have the options for vamp background, theme, race, & class. Go whole hog.
There were better ways to handle it. But the Heroes of Shadow book, as a whole, was mechanically underwhelming. Great fluff and flavor, but meh mechanics.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
I'm working with the fan-made update for the off-line character builder, so I'm not sure what the Dragon Magazine support cut-off date is/was.

I believe the offline builder has been updated with all/most of these materials. There might be a few things that are not in there but very little did not make it into the CB.

To check out the sources, go to the manage tab and then select the campaign settings link. You should be able to sort through the resources and see what has been added. BTW, that is also the way to customize/limit what appears in your particular campaign. For example if you want to remove anything that appeared in Dragon Magazine deselect all Dragon Magazines and save as a custom setting. If you don't like what appeared in The Book of Vile Darkness, deselect it and save, etc.
 

sabrinathecat

Explorer
To check out the sources, go to the manage tab and then select the campaign settings link. You should be able to sort through the resources and see what has been added. BTW, that is also the way to customize/limit what appears in your particular campaign. For example if you want to remove anything that appeared in Dragon Magazine deselect all Dragon Magazines and save as a custom setting. If you don't like what appeared in The Book of Vile Darkness, deselect it and save, etc.

Sadly, the version I have has some glitches: All themes are under a tab "Darksun Themes" rather than being Themes by source, all equipment from sources after the builder stopped receiving official support is shoved into generic "Adventuring Gear" rather than being subdivided into useful categories...
 

D'karr

Adventurer
Sadly, the version I have has some glitches: All themes are under a tab "Darksun Themes" rather than being Themes by source, all equipment from sources after the builder stopped receiving official support is shoved into generic "Adventuring Gear" rather than being subdivided into useful categories...

This should be easily fixable if you are using the fan-supported builder. I believe it involves an update to the builder, placing the correct files in the custom folder, and running the latest CBLoader file. From then on the loader should take care of any issues. If you need help in accomplishing this let me know.
 

Yes, building it as a race would have been way better. The class isn't bad, if you want the classic flavor, but have it be the race, with the option of the class, or another class, and a rider to the "used to be ____", and the feat that allows partial access to the previous race's feats or race powers.
Heck, have the options for vamp background, theme, race, & class. Go whole hog.
There were better ways to handle it. But the Heroes of Shadow book, as a whole, was mechanically underwhelming. Great fluff and flavor, but meh mechanics.

Yeah, I hear this a lot, but I still think the class route was the way to go. Making it a race would be too limiting in several ways. Races don't have that much mechanical weight in 4e, and you lose the ability to be a vampire OF various races, unless the even less mechanically weighty 'race overlay' concept is used. It just doesn't have the mechanical force to do the job IMHO.

You can still portray things like a 'wizard vampire' either by using a Theme, and or MCing or even using the hybrid version of the Vampire (again, in Dragon 402 IIRC). Otherwise you can rely on things like PP selection and judicious use of a feat or other (for instance all Vampire powers conveniently have the 'implement' keyword, meaning you can use one of many feats to gain access to an implement of whatever type, such as a wand perhaps, and use it with your vampire powers). Its really not that hard to mechanically support being a 'vampire <any implement class>'. Its actually SLIGHTLY tougher with weapons, but there are a lot of weapliment options out there that will work, assuming your DM won't bend a tiny bit and just let you wield a weapon as an implement for flavor purposes.

In any case, if you REALLY want to be a full-blown Wizard AND a Vampire, you've got a whole set of bloodline feats, the Vampirism MC feat (which will let you access the Vampire class' PP/ED) and the Vryloka race if you want to go with that too. I'd think these days that a Vampire/Wizard hybrid, or other sort of Vampire/ hybrid, would suite better, but there are many tricky build options.

I'd certainly have wanted to see builds be a little more straightforward in 4e generally, but IMHO Vampire isn't a particularly bad design. Its certainly easy enough to see why it was implemented as it is. And honestly, while some bits of HoS were not that inspiring I think the real issue with it is more that A) they tried to stick with a more restrained post-Essentials power baseline, and B) there just isn't any ongoing support for anything in HoS. The Binder pretty much bit, being a bad concept from the start, but the other stuff seemed more like just a start that needed to be built on. I think the book really could have used being another 100 pages, it wasn't great overall, but there was a lot of interesting ideas in it and most of it is pretty usable, if you're willing to extrapolate a bit.
 

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