Vampire spawn necrotic dmg and instant death

[Nelio2]

Two questions:

#1 So the vampire spawns deal necrotic damage when they bite and reduce the maximum hp.
If they hit me with regular piercing dmg and necrotic damage and I have temporary HP can I choose which source deals damage to the tHP? Because if I can then my max HP is not reduced if I take the necrotic dmg before the regular one.

#2 If my maxHP is reduced in such a way that it falls to say 5HP and I am dealt more than 10 regular damage as well, is this instant death even though my regular maxHP is 40?
I would have ruled yes.

 

[77IM]

#1 This is tricky, but the vampire spawn wording says your max HP is reduced by an amount equal to "damage taken," and the temporary HP rules say that temp HP absorb points of "damage taken." So it appears that "damage taken" is the number BEFORE temp HP negate any of the damage. So even if you apply the necrotic damage to the temp HP, your max HP would still decrease by that amount.

It's also unclear to me how to determine the order in which damage is taken. You seem to suggest that someone (are you player or DM?) can choose the order. But I would have ruled that the damage is applied in the order stated in the attack. In this case, it mentions piercing damage first, so you do that and temp HP absorbs some, and then do the necrotic damage and temp HP absorbs more (if it's still around), and then reduce the max HP.

#2 If your max HP is already down to 5, and some other hit or effect deals you 10 damage, then yes, you die by Instant Death. The vampire spawn reduces your "hit point maximum" and the Instant Death references your "hit point maximum," and I can't see why those two numbers would be different. This is also consistent with the wording on spells like greater restoration, which seem to imply that you have only a single "hit point maximum."

However, the order in which damage and effects occur matters. If you apply the vampire spawn's hit effects in the order they are written, then the victim takes all the damage before their hit point maximum is reduced, so if they don't die instantly from the damage, lowering the hit point maximum after-the-fact probably shouldn't kill them either. OTOH if the DM can choose the order of effects, you could theoretically choose to lower the hit point maximum first and THEN take the damage, so a single hit could reduce you to 5 max HP, and then deal enough damage to kill you. I think that's an absurd outcome, and is another good argument for applying the effects of the hit in the order they are written.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Another rule-of-thumb to take into account is that in 5e, where the rules are unclear choose the interpretation which does not insta-kill the player character. 5e has an action movie sensibility, where heroes are very difficult kill, and thus are encouraged to act heroically (i.e. with reckless stupidity).

Now, some tables prefer a more deadly game, which I think is fair enough if the players know what they are getting into. In which case, apply the opposite rule - if there is any uncertainty always choose the outcome that insta-kills the character.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

However, the order in which damage and effects occur matters. If you apply the vampire spawn's hit effects in the order they are written, then the victim takes all the damage before their hit point maximum is reduced, so if they don't die instantly from the damage, lowering the hit point maximum after-the-fact probably shouldn't kill them either. OTOH if the DM can choose the order of effects, you could theoretically choose to lower the hit point maximum first and THEN take the damage, so a single hit could reduce you to 5 max HP, and then deal enough damage to kill you. I think that's an absurd outcome, and is another good argument for applying the effects of the hit in the order they are written.

If you apply the hit point reduction before the damage, then at that point the victim has taken 0 damage so his hit point maximum will not actually be reduced If you have a monster that would reduce max HP by a set amount instead of equal to damage rolled then applying the HP reduction before the actual damage could be deadly, but off the top of my head I'm not aware of any such monsters.