Vampire vs Lich

[Endur]

I think this is a pretty good point. As applied to fighter-types, the Vampire template is CR +2. If applied to spell caster types, the Vampire template is going to be more than CR +2, probably CR +3 or +4 for a sorceror.

For a Sorceror, they get the Chr bonus and their high Chr to start with makes the vampire abilities more powerful.

They get much higher hit points (d12 instead of d4).

They get immunity to effects that cause fort saves (usually a sorceror's biggest weakness).

They also get a great deal of defense that the sorceror class doesn't have. They don't need to worry about a PC grappling them because of the level drain, blood drain, higher str, and gaseous form abilities.

And so on and so forth.

Playtesting showed that vampires tended to be melee warriors of some kind and that the template was a little more than the equivalent of 2 higher CR and a little less than 3. So for XP award they got CR +2.

Liches have to be spellcasters to craft the phylactery, and at the level that they acquire the template, it doesn't effect their challenge very much in a single encounter so it is relatively light on the penalties of the template. But because of the fact that they can continually "respawn", they got more than a +1 CR increase, though just barely.

These two templates don't compare directly very well to each other because they are designed to be used in two entirely different games (high level and mid level) and because on average they are applied to different types of creatures so the effect they have on the challenge of those creatures is measured differently.

But most importantly, CR's are wide bands. Very wide in some cases.

 

[Dreaddisease]

Good points. I just have one problem. A spellcaster Vampire is much more potent than a lich. Especially the dumb sorcerers. I personally would have a vampire and fear him/her more. The domination alone can give a vampire a larger following than a lich. Not counting the mindless spawn and vampires that can serve the vamp. Vampires can last just as long and can plan just as vile and awful things as liches. Plus they can advance in character class levels. Your restrictions are minor (except the daytime thing), but an intellegent and powerful vamp won't have any troubles taking care of that. Oh, and the feats for free thing. give me a break.

I now have a fear of vampires at any level.

Also I think some of their restricitions are too often overlooked. Garlic, holy symbols and whatnot. I have been in 2 parties where the DM played the vampire to just avoid looking at them but was able to charm the cleric in the party with no trouble.

Also I think the real problem is not playing the blood desire enough. A maddening bloodlust should cause a vampire to make silly decisions instead of all this calculated crap. A vampire who has not fed within 24 or 48 hours should have an unsatiable desire and has trouble performing calculated tasks. (Thats just what I get from vampire texts). How do you think the villagers with the pitchforks can find and destroy a vamp so easily? They just wait for the vamp to make a mistake.

Anyways, rambling also.

 

[Magic Rub]

Becoming a Litch has soooooo may benefits over being a Vampire.

- The juicy extra's that are in MoF. (which has been noted)
- Walking around during the day. (again noted)
- Who needs "fast healing" When (if planned correctly) you can't be truly killed.

and if being a litch isn't good enough for you...

There's always the upgrade to Demi-Litch

But When you're a Vamp. that's all there is.

 

[Magic Rub]

Plus they can advance in character class levels.

So can liches. (please someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

I have been in 2 parties where the DM played the vampire to just avoid looking at them but was able to charm the cleric in the party with no trouble.

You can't avoid being turned buy not looking at a Holy symbol. It's not a sight thing.

 

[The Iron Mark]

Magic Rub is right, a Lich can eventually become a Demi-Lich, which can be truley terrifying. But a Vampire can become a Vampire Lord, getting flying with Perfect manuverability, more negative levels drained, 10/+3 DR, 8 Fast Healing, Telekinesis at will(OUCH!), even higher stats, and negation of many vampire weaknesses. One of these include light. And the only way to kill it is by cutting it into tiny pieces and placing them everywhere and burning them.

 

[Magic Rub]

Magic Rub is right, a Lich can eventually become a Demi-Lich, which can be truley terrifying. But a Vampire can become a Vampire Lord, getting flying with Perfect manuverability, more negative levels drained, 10/+3 DR, 8 Fast Healing, Telekinesis at will(OUCH!), even higher stats, and negation of many vampire weaknesses. One of these include light. And the only way to kill it is by cutting it into tiny pieces and placing them everywhere and burning them.

Vampire Lord? What book is this in?

 

[Deadguy]

One very important consideration is that becoming a Vampire will leave the PC in thrall to the Vampire who created him. You may gain great power but you are an absolute slave to the Master who made you. You need some friends to take down the Vampire who is your Master, whilst at the same time avoiding killing you (since you'll be fighting for him). More, you're going to confess to your Master what your plans are, so you'd better have friends that can second guess you! And who will still 'trust' you when you become a monster!

On the other hand, the Lich transformation is a solitary endeavour, which lies under your own control. You answer to no-one, and you need not fear being exploited by a third party. Alongside some of the other advantages, any 'sane' (!) person would far prefer to become a lich than a vampire.

 

[The Iron Mark]

It's on Wizard's website, in monster mayhem. It also lets you retain your chaotic/laful/neutral part of your alignment. That and you don't have a vampire bossing you around.