Vampiric Touch, Spellstoring, and thrown weapon...

[Altamont Ravenard]

IMO It shouldn't work, and here's why:

When creating a magic weapon (not as a character, I mean as a DM, ie using the Tables in the SRD / DMG), you have a list of Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons. Also, you have a list of Melee Weapon enchantments, and Ranged weapon enhancement. Flaming, for instance, is on both lists. Spell Storing is only on the Melee Weapon Enchantments list. I thus infer that the Spell Storing ability can only be used with a Melee Weapon.

AR

 

[FrankTrollman]

IMO It shouldn't work, and here's why:

When creating a magic weapon (not as a character, I mean as a DM, ie using the Tables in the SRD / DMG), you have a list of Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons. Also, you have a list of Melee Weapon enchantments, and Ranged weapon enhancement. Flaming, for instance, is on both lists. Spell Storing is only on the Melee Weapon Enchantments list. I thus infer that the Spell Storing ability can only be used with a Melee Weapon.

AR

So all of the Keen Arrows descriptions in published adventures, splatbooks, and hardcover WotC books are illegal? Good to know.



-Frank

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Well, according to the magic weapon creation tables that I speak of, no, you shouldn't be able to get keen arrows, other than by actually using the Keen edge spell.

AR

PS: I don't mean to insult anyone, but Frank, you're kind of Hypersmurf on a bad day.

 

[FrankTrollman]

But there is no magic item creation table. There's a random magical item generation table - but it is not actually used to create magic items*.

* Unless you force your players to roll dice when using their craft magic arms and armor feat.

-Frank

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

But there is no magic item creation table. There's a random magical item generation table - but it is not actually used to create magic items*.

* Unless you force your players to roll dice when using their craft magic arms and armor feat.

-Frank

generate, that's the word I was looking for. When I said create, I meant generate, as a DM. Sorry for the confusion.

IMHO, these tables are the guidelines of what kind of magic weapon you can generate and create (as a character).

Would you allow a bow of Wounding? A vorpal Whip? A dancing repeating Crossbow?

AR

 

[FrankTrollman]

IMHO, these tables are the guidelines of what kind of magic weapon you can generate and create (as a character).

Care to back that up with a rules quote? The rules don't actually say that - you are just infering it from the fact that you want to believe it.

Would you allow a bow of Wounding?

Yes. It's even extremely schticky for some groups. I could totally see Erinyes or Marrashusing such an item. In fact, I've used an Erinyes with a Wounding Bow in a game I ran. Very cool, and totally legal by the book.

A vorpal Whip?

I don't even follow you here. A Whip is a slashing melee weapon in 3.5 - what possible rules fiasco would prevent you from making a vorpal whip? It's in the same category as a sword! Do you stop people from making vorpal swords?

A dancing repeating Crossbow?

That would be pretty pointless - the Dancing Enhancement only allows it to attack adjacent foes. But I suppose you could make one - it would just suck. Of course, the dancing enhancement is pretty weak whatever you do - but it would be even weaker with any sort of ranged weapon.

-Frank

 

[drnuncheon]

Until the end of the action.

You've got an explicit rules cite on that, right Frank?

Just to note, there's other rules cites that imply that "weilded" means the same as "in hand". Check out this quote from the chaotic enhancement: "The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded."

It looks like nitpicking about the meaning of 'weilded' is not going to determine a damn thing, because it is not used in a consistent manner throughout the rules. So why don't you tone down the attitude and try to have a reasonable, friendly discussion instead of being deliberately antagonistic?

J

 

[FrankTrollman]

Just to note, there's other rules cites that imply that "weilded" means the same as "in hand". Check out this quote from the chaotic enhancement: "The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded."

That's not inconsistent with the definition of wielded presented in the thrown weapons description. You pick up a chaotic dagger. You have a negative energy level. You throw it at someone, the negative energy level remains until after the action is resolved, then it's gone.

It's used in a completely consistent manner. "Wield" means the same thing as "use". When you are throwing a dagger you are still "using" and "wielding" it until the action is resolved. So any bonuses or penalties you get when wielding or using that weapon apply to the attack roll, the damage roll, and any secondary effects of the attack. Then, when your next action comes up, you are no longer wielding or using that object because it has been imbedded into someone else's thigh.

I understand that you don't like that it says that - and I don't care what you don't like. If you want to find some inconsistency - you are not going to have a difficult time. Just go through the Polymorph spells and we could be at this for days. But the use of the word "wield" in the D&D rules is completely consistent throughout the entire series of core books.

-Frank

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Care to back that up with a rules quote? The rules don't actually say that - you are just infering it from the fact that you want to believe it.

True.

Yes. It's even extremely schticky for some groups. I could totally see Erinyes or Marrash using such an item. In fact, I've used an Erinyes with a Wounding Bow in a game I ran. Very cool, and totally legal by the book.

Well that's what we disagree on, isn't it?

I don't even follow you here. A Whip is a slashing melee weapon in 3.5 - what possible rules fiasco would prevent you from making a vorpal whip? It's in the same category as a sword! Do you stop people from making vorpal swords?

My bad. Checked 3.0 Equipment list for a slashing, ranged weapon. Basically, would you allow a Vorpal Ranged Slashing Weapon (maybe a Chakram (sp?) from FRCS)?

That would be pretty pointless - the Dancing Enhancement only allows it to attack adjacent foes. But I suppose you could make one - it would just suck. Of course, the dancing enhancement is pretty weak whatever you do - but it would be even weaker with any sort of ranged weapon.

So, you do agree that it would be stupid to allow an enchantment on the Melee Weapon table to apply to a Ranged Weapon (in this specific case).

Why can't you find these weapons as random treasure?

AR

 

[FrankTrollman]

Basically, would you allow a Vorpal Ranged Slashing Weapon (maybe a Chakram (sp?) from FRCS)?

Sure. Have you ever seen Xena?

So, you do agree that it would be stupid to allow an enchantment on the Melee Weapon table to apply to a Ranged Weapon (in this specific case).

No I agree that it would be stupid to take an enhancement which is limited to 5 feet of range and put it on a crossbow. As to actually allowing it, I think it would be pretty stupid to disallow it.

Why can't you find these weapons as random treasure?

1> Why can't you find Opposable weapons as random treasure? Or Shatterspike weapons? Or Caustic Burst weapons? Or any of the enhancements that are in supplements?

2> Convenience. There aren't very many slashing ranged weapons. In the core rules - there aren't any. Therefore there's no point in putting Vorpal on the ranged table and telling you to reroll every time you get it for a non-slashing weapon - you'd just reroll every time. Thus, we could expect way less than 1% of the powerful ranged weapons to be vorpal - and if it's less than 1% it may as well not be on the chart.

All not being on the chart means is that it's really rare. Not that you can't make it - but that not many people have. You can't make a ranged vorpal weapon in the core rules - so it's not listed on the core chart. That does not mean that you couldn't make one if you had a non-core weapon which was ranged and slashing.

Heck, by your logic, we wouldn't be able to have a magical chakram at all - as it isn't on the ranged magical weapons chart in the same book.

Non-appearance on the random item chart means precisely one thing: it's not on that chart. Do to the enormous wealth of things which can be made - that's hardly surprising. You know what else isn't on the chart? Elvenkind Cloaks of Resistance +1. You can make them, they cost 4,000 gp - but they aren't on the chart. The chart is much more limited than the item creation rules allow items to become.

The inability to make a magic item that doesn't already exist on the treasure chart is something which only happens in video games.

-Frank