Vampiric Touch, Spellstoring, and thrown weapon...

[FrankTrollman]

Nope. Barring your DM doing something crazy - like making up some kind of imaginary intermediary step where weapons are being "used" but not "wielded" - you are good to go and you can throw knives into people and drain their life force.

Good times!

-FRank

 

[Caliban]

Nope. Barring your DM doing something crazy - like making up some kind of imaginary intermediary step where weapons are being "used" but not "wielded" - you are good to go and you can throw knives into people and drain their life force.

Good times!

-FRank

You seem to be making up a step wherein a throwing weapon automatically allows you to activate it a distance, and ignores the touch requirement of the spell.

So yeah, if you want to make up your own rules, good times!

 

[Saeviomagy]

You seem to be making up a step wherein a throwing weapon automatically allows you to activate it a distance, and ignores the touch requirement of the spell.

So yeah, if you want to make up your own rules, good times!

No, actually the weapon is casting the spell, so the touch requirement is fulfilled.

Which, interestingly enough, would seem to suggest that the dagger will end up with extra hitpoints (??).

 

[Caliban]

No, actually the weapon is casting the spell, so the touch requirement is fulfilled.

Which, interestingly enough, would seem to suggest that the dagger will end up with extra hitpoints (??).

Most people seem to think they would end up with the extra hit points, which I could kinda see if you were wielding it yourself. Technically, I suppose no hit point transfer would actually take place, since as you point out it's the weapon that casts the spell.

I still don't think you can actually activate a thrown weapon, since it's not in your hand.

 

[rhammer2]

I've never considered using Spellstoring in a thrown weapon, but I have ruled that it is the weapon casting the spell and that the wielder would not get the drained HP.

Most people seem to think they would end up with the extra hit points, which I could kinda see if you were wielding it yourself. Technically, I suppose no hit point transfer would actually take place, since as you point out it's the weapon that casts the spell.

I still don't think you can actually activate a thrown weapon, since it's not in your hand.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Where is the touch requirement in the Spellstoring enhancement?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

OK, now that you've thought about that one: stop wasting our time.

-Frank

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

The point is that the restrictions on how large a weapon you can use are based on the size of the weapon vs. the "wielder" of the weapon. So if you didn't "wield" a thrown weapon there would be no limit to how large a weapon you could throw. Thus, a halfling could throw a Titan's warhammer.

Fortunately, you do "wield" a thrown weapon, which means that halflings can't throw Titan hammers - and that a spellstoring dagger works fine.

Oh so weight requirements vs strength and max lift, etc. don't apply at all to prevent a halfling from throwing a titan hammer?

I honestly think you misunderstood what I was saying above - the size arguement doesn't enter into whether or not a thrown dagger is wielded by the thrower when it hits a target.

The same place that I find that Flaming Burst is not limited to Longswords. There is a precise list of what restrictions each weapon enhancement has. Those which can only be applied to melee weapons are clearly labeled as such. Those which can be applied to only ranged weapons are also clearly labeled as such. Those which can be applied to ranged or melee weapons are not labeled at all - as this is considered the "normal" state for a weapon enhancement quality.

And where is this alleged list? I've checked the SRD repeatedly. If you are referring to the tables of potential enchantments for ranged vs melee weapons - Vampiric Touch is on the list for melee, but not on the list for ranged. Or is there a different list you are referring to?

As to Vampiric Touch in weapons: yes it works. It's even used explicitly in a couple of packaged adventures, as it is a really good combo.

-Frank

Yes, I'm sure it is mentioned in several packaged adventures. I seem to recall a couple of instances therein, but those are exclusively melee weapons...

So, would you be willing to cite a specific case wherein a 'RANGED' weapon successfully used vampiric touch?


Note that much of this discussion is academic. My stance originally was that in the strictest 'letter' of the rules, the answer was 'no', but that I'd allow it to happen in my game simply because it is an effective combination for a player to come up with.

Your stance appears to be, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that it should work as well.

 

[drnuncheon]

So you are 'weilding'a weapon even after you throw it? Coooool!

I'm going to start throwing defender daggers to up my AC. Even though I've chucked them across the room, those daggers are going to fly back and block attacks aimed at me.

Of course, since you're still weilding a weapon even after you throw it, that means that if you want to throw a weapon, you'd better have two-weapon fighting, because otherwise you'll be taking penalties until you retrieve it and either sheathe it or drop it (because then you're not weilding it anymore).

Sounds like a bit of bad coding in a computer game, doesn't it?

Here's what you're missing, Frank:

You count as weilding a thrown weapon up until the point when it leaves your hand. No halflings throwing Colossal hammers, but no getting the benefits of the weapon after you throw it either.

J

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

So you are 'weilding'a weapon even after you throw it? Coooool!

I'm going to start throwing defender daggers to up my AC. Even though I've chucked them across the room, those daggers are going to fly back and block attacks aimed at me.

Of course, since you're still weilding a weapon even after you throw it, that means that if you want to throw a weapon, you'd better have two-weapon fighting, because otherwise you'll be taking penalties until you retrieve it and either sheathe it or drop it (because then you're not weilding it anymore).

Sounds like a bit of bad coding in a computer game, doesn't it?

Here's what you're missing, Frank:

You count as weilding a thrown weapon up until the point when it leaves your hand. No halflings throwing Colossal hammers, but no getting the benefits of the weapon after you throw it either.

J

That's what I was saying the strict letter of the rules meant

However, as a GM, I'd handle the issue on a case by case basis. Vampiric Touch I'd allow to work, defending I would not.

 

[FrankTrollman]

And where is this alleged list? I've checked the SRD repeatedly. If you are referring to the tables of potential enchantments for ranged vs melee weapons - Vampiric Touch is on the list for melee, but not on the list for ranged. Or is there a different list you are referring to?

It's the list in each special ability. For example:

This enchantment can only be placed on a melee weapon.

Is listed under the throwing enhancement - indicating that it has the restriction that it can only be placed on a melee weapon. But if you go up a couple of entries to the spell storing enhancement it doesn't say that. Which means the place where the restriction would be if it had it is empty.

So either:

1> It was misprinted to not have that restriction in two editions, and they never published errata for that misprint in what is now nearly four years.

or

2> Spell Storing never had that restriction in the first place.

As to the list: Keen is also not on the ranged weapon list - and appears frequently in source books as an enchantment on bows and/or arrows. The list doesn't mean jack-all.

So you are 'weilding'a weapon even after you throw it? Coooool!

Until the end of the action. D&D uses "use" and "wield" interchangably - often within the same sentences. So if you you have Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization with a dagger - the bonus applies even after you've thrown it.

Or to put it another way, let's look at the PHB on page 113 under the rules for thrown weapons:

Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by her thrown weapons

So what exactly is your rules claim that you are not wielding a thrown weapon, given the fact that you are explicitly the wielder of a thrown weapon when calculating damage?

Stop wasting time: put up an explicit rule that says you can't use vampiric touch with a spellstoring thrown dagger or just shut up and go away. So far everything you've said counter to this plan has not come from the rules but from your pants.

This is a rules forum - where we discuss rules. You may not like the rules - in which case you can go away and complain about them on the house rules forum.

Without house rules:

* You explicitly "wield" weapons which you have thrown.
* Spell Storing weapons require you to "wield" the weapon and do not require that you "touch" the weapon.

This part of the discussion is over, unless you have some more crazy you want to add to it.

Of course, since you're still weilding a weapon even after you throw it, that means that if you want to throw a weapon, you'd better have two-weapon fighting, because otherwise you'll be taking penalties until you retrieve it and either sheathe it or drop it (because then you're not weilding it anymore).

Only if you want to get more attacks than your BAB would allow from using a weapon in each hand. If you throw a dagger, quick-draw another dagger and throw it, and then quickdraw another dagger and throw it - you suffer no TWF penalties. If, OTOH, you throw a dagger with each hand, then quickdraw a dagger and throw it, and then quickdraw another dagger and throw it to - you'd better have TWF.

TWF only gives you penalties if you attempt to use the same BAB for attacks with two different weapons. If you simply use another weapon with your normal iterative attacks - you get no penalties.

-Frank