Vancian Magic - Yes or No?

[nimisgod]

Preparation spellcasting is the biggest deterrent to my selecting Wizards, Clerics and Druids as a class for any character of mine. So, no to Vancian magick.

 

[Humanophile]

On the one hand, I like the flavor of wizards as a class, I'm sure many other people do too, and they're a D&D classic. So for that matter, I'd also want a divine preparation caster left in place for cleric legacy players.

But on the other, I find that most people play "wizards" (in 2e as well as 3) as psuedo-sorcerers, and find the sorcerous magic system to be easier in play as well as more flavorful than the generic wizard, and as such, the "default" caster in 4e should be a limited-list spontaneous caster. Vancian magic should be held as an option 'till at least 6-7 ed, but should be slowly moved to the sidelines as time goes by.

 

[Agback]

Bye-bye Vance is fine by me, I don't even really enjoy his stories to be honest.

Well, I don't like his Dying Earth stuff (from which the eponymous magic comes) either. But Vance is one of the most mercurial of writers--you wouldn't guess that, say Cugel's Saga and Araminta Station were by the same author.

And by the way, I find the 'fire & forget' magic system so immensely distasteful that I never play a character who uses it. I don't know what I would have done if my paladin character had reached a high enough level to cast spells. In 3.0 I stick to monks and bards.

So you can guess how I voted.

Sure, D&D won't be D&D without Vancian magic. So what? I'd rather the game was enjoyable than traditioinal.

Regards,


Agback

 

[AeroDm]

In reading all the threads on Vancian magic as of late I was thinking about its adoption into dnd. I know that gygax enjoyed the writing of Vance which was a large part of its acceptance, but I assume that it was also taken into the system because it was unique. Many authors had represented magic in various ways, but vance's was more or less unique. I find it relatively ironic that one of the draws towards the vancian system (its unique flavor) in the early days of dnd is now the major hindrance (its inability to replicate most magic users in literature).

 

[Agback]

I was bored stupid by Vance....

Ah! That's how it happened.

If you don't mind my asking, which Vance works in particular had this stultifying effect?

Regards,


Agback

 

[Blue_Kryptonite]

Count me among the Anti-Vance camp. I've never finished his stories without effort, and I've been using spell-point systems since the 70s.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Down with Vancian Systems! Up with cooler systems!!!

 

[Epametheus]

Wow. Currently, my "yes" vote has tied the tally at 33 to 33.

Vancian-style magic makes sense to me -- spells take too bloody long to cast from scratch, so you prep the energies ahead of time and release them with a short phrase or gesture. Since you have to plan ahead of time, having a wide variety of choices and often packing a damn good punch works out.

When you give the spellcasters both limitless variety AND flexibility (like they do in Wheel of Time), you get a rather unbalanced world. White Wolf had to balance limitless variety and flexibility by making magic outright suck in most of their systems.

 

[AeroDm]

I vote that vancain magic should be in. Had the question been "is vancian the koolest system" i'd have given it a resounding 'no'. I'd also like to preface by saying that I think vancian magic shouldn't be the only magic system in 4e.

 

[Acid_crash]

Sure, D&D won't be D&D without Vancian magic. So what? I'd rather the game was enjoyable than traditioinal.

Enjoyable being the key word I find here, and I am on the side that finds Vancian magic in D&D not just distasteful, but just plain boring. I know they put the Sorceror in to flavor it a bit, and give us that don't like "fire and forget" Wizards, but the entire feel of magic in D&D is boring, as it's stated in the Core Rules books.

My view changes when I read AU, Midnight and Dawnforge, which has taken the basic magic system and twisted it into a system that makes sense, but provides unique experiences and versatility.

I guess if there was a poll that stated something like: Should the magic system be dictated by the setting, or vice versa, then I would pick the first.