Variant HP Methods?

[Knightfall]

Does anyone have any interesting alternative methods for hit points in D&D? I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this alternative method.

Okay, characters gain the same Hit Die for their class, but a PC only gains hit points every 5 levels. The character still gains its Con bonus every level, however, and gains maximum hit points at 1st-level.

This would be for a very harsh campaign that I call Dark World, which doesn't use the standard classes. It uses the generic classes, for the most point, plus barbarian and some of the classes from the Complete Series.

So, basically, a 20th-level barbarian, with a Con score of 18, would have 12 + (4 x 20) + 3d12 hit points. (Average 111 hp).

Now, the idea is that certain monsters would have a higher or lower hit point progression. Outsiders would gain their Hit Die every 4 HD, while Animals would gain their Hit Die every 5 HD, just as a rough estimate.

Opinions?

KF72

 

[Land Outcast]

Opinions? I'm not qualified to give them because I don't know where you are standing but...
An initial effect would be a massive decrease in the elven population, and the repeated situation of 1-2 hits to make a kill.

Combat would become lethal.

I would go for giving full hp those levels they actually have hp... but that's just me.

This has great effects (MPOV), the reality of lucky hits and stealthy killing becomes true. Armor Class is transformed into something of high(er) relevance, and forethought (should) enter before picking up a fight... almost any fight.

There are obvious downsides to this, specially regarding magic's lethality and the fact that some kind of players woulf find it highly "unfun".

 

[Hawken]

What is your purpose for using this method? It seems as though you want to make combat more dangerous all around, or certain things more dangerous. If that is the case, you could just give the more dangerous things more HP. Or if that is not right, but you want things to be tougher, give them a better AC or even DR.

Knightfall1972 is right though. Elves would face extinction/extermination while Dwarves would become an even more powerful race. Also, abilities such as Sneak Attack, etc. would be even more powerful and spells would be even more dangerous. You'd probably find a lot more Rogue/Wizard, Rogue/Sorcerers in your campaigns, as well as Clerics, Druids and even Paladins. Heh! A dwarven cleric/sorcerer would practically be a god being able to take/restore large amounts of now precious HP in a matter of seconds.

If you are looking for alternate methods:
1) Max at 1st level, roll others.
2) Roll or take the DM's roll.
3) Roll D4 plus possible bonus (1D4 for D4, 1D4+2 for D6...1D4+8 for D12, etc.).
4) Take avg instead of rolling.

A possible solution that seems close to your method while not totally stripping HP would be:
Level 1: Roll HP normally.
Level 2: Take avg. HP for your HD.
Level 3: Take min. HP (1) for your HD.
Repeat process for levels after 3 and keep Con bonus for all levels/HD.

 

[Bront]

That would make con a required stat, and penalize Elves needlessly (the loose -20 HP over the course of 20 levels as a racial disadvantage). I'd have trouble making a character without con as the high stat in that game.

Your Barb with an 18 con is 111 average at 20th, with a 16 con, he's down to 91, 14 con down to 71, 12 con at 51, 10 con at 31, and, hevan forbid, 8 con at 11.

A Wizard with a Con of 8 dies at 4th level.

 

[Knightfall]

A Wizard with a Con of 8 dies at 4th level.

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Perhaps the characters should only gain the Con bonus, and forget about the Con penalties (only for hps). Thus a character with a Con of 9 or lower would simply have their hit dice, plus any special feats.

And I like Land Outcast's idea of giving maximum hit points for any Hit Dice gained. And the design concept is that combat is supposed to be deadly.

I was also thinking of an increasing scale depending on the character/creature's hit die. Thus, those with a lower hit die get more total hit dice as they level up. Like the following.\

d4 = 1 hit die per level
d6 = 1 hit die per 2 levels
d8 = 1 hit die per 3 levels
d10 = 1 hit die per 4 levels
d12 = 1 hit die per 5 levels

In the case of the barbarian (and creature's with d12 HD), they get the Toughness feat for free.

Nothing is written in stone, as of yet.

Cheers!

KF72

 

[Lorehead]

Unless you reduce all damage to a fraction of its current level, you will make the game completely unplayable. If you do reduce both damage and hit points by the same ratio, you've done nothing but make more work for yourself.

The hit point system is simple. It works. If you change such basic elements of the game, be prepared for it to break.

 

[Bront]

I would suggest if you want a lower, playable HP system, simply use half HP round down, including 1st level.

D4 = 2 HP per level
D6 = 3 HP per level
D8 = 4 HP per level
D10 = 5 HP per level
D12 = 6 HP per level

20th level Barb has 120 HP + con (Compared to a normal average of 136), which makes him somewhat survivable, but a little weaker on average.
20th level Wizard has 40 HP + con (Compared to 52)

If you want to deaden high con, have the con bonus apply like the PP bonus (At 1/2 per level). You already have a convenient table in the SRD, and it will deaden the swing of high (and conversly low) HP. You still can't gain anything less than 1 HP per level (so a Wizard with a con of 5 or less isn't royaly screwed).

It works fairly nice actualy. 8-9 you use the 12-13 chart, but subtract, 6-7, use the 14-15 but subtract, etc. So your Barb with an 18 Con has 160 HP instead of 216 average of your normal.

It will be deadly, but playable.

 

[dvvega]

If you want to lower hit points in general why not do the following:

Your base hit die is racially based. The "weaker" races like elves would use a lower die (favoured class is a good place to start with d6 or d8 being average).

Instead of your class giving you hit dice it gives you a modifier to your racial hit dice (or increases it a number of die types).

So for example an elf has d4 racial hit dice. A Barbarian would give the maximum of +4 for example. So an Elven Barbarian would have average of 6 hit points at 1st level (which is much the same as a normal 1st level Barbarian) but will have a maximum of 8.

Con obviously counts.

This way their birth affects them but their training can improve them.

D

 

[GuardianLurker]

If you're just looking for a way to make combat more lethal, just use d20 Modern's massive damage threshold. Or even lower, to a MDT of 10. For real lethality, start adding the damage taken to the save DC.

And you never have to muck with one of the core mechanics.

 

[rgard]

Does anyone have any interesting alternative methods for hit points in D&D? I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this alternative method.

Okay, characters gain the same Hit Die for their class, but a PC only gains hit points every 5 levels. The character still gains its Con bonus every level, however, and gains maximum hit points at 1st-level.

This would be for a very harsh campaign that I call Dark World, which doesn't use the standard classes. It uses the generic classes, for the most point, plus barbarian and some of the classes from the Complete Series.

So, basically, a 20th-level barbarian, with a Con score of 18, would have 12 + (4 x 20) + 3d12 hit points. (Average 111 hp).

Now, the idea is that certain monsters would have a higher or lower hit point progression. Outsiders would gain their Hit Die every 4 HD, while Animals would gain their Hit Die every 5 HD, just as a rough estimate.

Opinions?

KF72

I like the ideas you have in so far as creating a more lethal world, but I do think you'll break things if you change the hit points for reasons others have stated. You could try these for an alternative and still get the lethality you want:

1. Use the alternative hp system from UA. Con = wounds. and add the Armor = DR. Critical hits go right to wounds bypassing your hit points.

Or:

2. Limit Divine spells to 2nd or 3rd Level or max class level for Divine spell casters is 3 or 4.

Thanks,
Rich