Versatile Weapons and Power Attack

[Bond James Bond]

WotC Mearls 05-29-08, 07:33 PM
"This is not an official answer, but let me give some insight into how versatile is intended to work.

As a rule of thumb when using a versatile weapon, default to giving the player the most beneficial reading of a rule or situation regarding one or two handed use.

RAW aren`t really clear on this one, but I go along with this way of reading it.

So, if you wield a versatile weapon i two hands it should count as a two handed weapon, and vice versa.

Otherwise, using a versatile weapon in two hand sover 1-handed and shield would be just too weak (as you couldnt fully benefit from reaping strike, power attack an the like). Nobody would ever give up a shield for a mere +1 bonus to damage (remember, not +1 per dice).

 

[Larrin]

Yeah, I think "if Versatile weapons DON'T count as two-handed, what good are they?" is a pretty good indication of where one should decide where they fall in this argument. To me, the +1 damage just isn't doing it.

If you wield something in two hands, its a two handed weapon. You shouldn't need a rule book to tell you this, and the rule book shouldn't contradict such a freaking obvious point. You've got both hands on it....you can give just as much extra 'oompf' to get the power attack/reaping strike benefits. The wording in the rules is pretty not perfectly clear, and the harshest readings will fall on the "they're only ever one handed", but there is wiggle room, and i say "Take the Wiggle!"

 

[DracoSuave]

Of course Power Attack is a trap anyways, so why would you take it, if you're trying to Optimize?

 

[Tenniel]

The more I look the more I feel the RAW do not support either way of looking at it.

A long sword used two hd does the same average damage as a greatsword, but weighs less and is more concealable... so you may say let's give the greatsword a break and let's not have verstaile use 2h count as 2 hd weapons.

But then on the other hand, does it really matter. If you are going down the 2 hd route (with feats, powers, build options) you probably won't be flitting back and forth between 1 hd and 2 hd. Also these weapons are called versatile, not marginally verstaile. Then again, they aren't called fantastically versatile.

As the rules stand a Bastard Sword used 2 hd does more damage than a greatsword, so is it a big deal if a warrior power attacks with a longsword in 2 hands and gets the same bonus that the greatsword does?

 

[Bond James Bond]

Of course Power Attack is a trap anyways, so why would you take it, if you're trying to Optimize?

Well, it depends. At least with a decent Group (especially with a warlord), you can get near to automatic hits when it counts, since there are a lot powers which reduce the enemies AC or boost your Attack.

Power Attack is a trap, if you use it all the time. If used right, it can significantly boost your overall damage.

 

[Mallus]

Power Attack is a trap, if you use it all the time. If used right, it can significantly boost your overall damage.

I'm taking PA for my paladin. Combined w/the at-will that grants a +1 to hit per adjacent opponent, it should work quite nicely. Not to mention all those nice bonuses from the party's Warlord...

 

[DracoSuave]

If you auto-hit often enough, then it's worth it. There's a certain point where you do enough damage that nothing -but- autohit is worth the extra damage. I'll be buggered if I can do the math right now tho.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Also, if versatile allows for things like power attack, it could also justify rogue's wielding a mace outside of ruthless ruffian, or the eladrin taking the feat to be a longsword wielding rogue, etc ...

 

[Danceofmasks]

Or reaping strike giving you the full str mod when you miss.
Although (PHB) fighters ought to stick to their talents ... might be an option for tempest or somesuch.

 

[-Avalon-]

I don't think Rules Lawyers will like this edition...

4th Edition is just vague enough to leave the DM/Players enough room to freely wander around and design their own styles, yet specific enough to give people needed basic structure...

Versatile means a weapon can be wielded in either:
A - One Hand
OR
B - Two Hands

Meaning that if the player wields it one-handed, they gain all the benefits/negatives of wielding it that way at the time. If they wield it two-handed, they gain all the benefits/negatives of wielding it THAT way at the time.

So, yes, power attack would give the better bonuses on a versatile weapon being wielded 2-handed. In fact, it makes sense storyline-wise also. "The might warrior, having seen 2 of his friends cut down right before his eyes, flew into a wild rage, threw off his shield, eyes burning, issuing a challenging roar to the enemy, and began to slaughter foes heedlessly!" The warrior decided he needed more damage, dropped the shield, went 2-Handed... in that way, he gains more damage for the price of AC and the +1 to hit...