Viable crossbow builds

[RigaMortus]

just curious but, does Monkey Grip only apply to melee weapons? Because I could potentionally see a build where you dual wield a heavy xbow in each hand...

My friend once made a rogue that specialized in hand xbows. He was able to fire off 2, drop them, quick draw another one (that was loaded) and fire it off too. It wasn't terribly damaging, but it did look cool (in our minds of course, lol).

 

[kenobi65]

Felix, while I agree that the hand crossbow does have certain advantages, the low damage, short range increment, and Exotic status (unless you're a rogue) makes it a niche weapon, and far more appealing to rogues than to any other class, IMO. In some campaigns, the advantages you point out will be extremely useful; in others, they may not come up at all.

I think, if you're going to make a feasible combat-oriented crossbow build, you're looking at a light crossbow (so that Rapid Reload will let you shoot more than once a round).

Rapid Reload is really the linchpin feat for this kind of build; even at low levels, it lets you effectively use Rapid Shot.

After those two, I'd consider either Precise Shot (if you find yourself firing into melee a lot) or Weapon Focus. Far Shot may be a good choice, if you find yourself fighting at range more often than not (that 80' range increment is short enough that it won't span a Battlemat ).

 

[kenobi65]

just curious but, does Monkey Grip only apply to melee weapons? Because I could potentionally see a build where you dual wield a heavy xbow in each hand...

IIRC, Monkey Grip doesn't work that way in 3.5. Instead, it lets you use weapons made for a size larger than yourself, as if they were sized for you. (Quick, somebody with the actual book tell me for sure!)

 

[Darkness]

IIRC, Monkey Grip doesn't work that way in 3.5. Instead, it lets you use weapons made for a size larger than yourself, as if they were sized for you. (Quick, somebody with the actual book tell me for sure!)

Yep, at -2, and it also doesn't enable you to wield a larger weapon than normal in your off-hand.

 

[Felix]

Felix, while I agree that the hand crossbow does have certain advantages, the low damage, short range increment, and Exotic status (unless you're a rogue) makes it a niche weapon, and far more appealing to rogues than to any other class, IMO. In some campaigns, the advantages you point out will be extremely useful; in others, they may not come up at all.

It certainly is a niche weapon. I just happen to think that that niche is the best application of a crossbow that cannot be accomplished by some other ranged weapon. In everything else the crossbow is outdone.

So yeah, the one situation any crossbow shines is that small little niche fit by poison-shooting rogues.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The Hand cross bow is cool idea that we all want desprately to work, but the simple truth is that it sucks.

Unless you are a low-strength combatant. In which case your damage is NOT coming from strength, but from other things. Like sneak attack, so you're a rogue.

It takes to long to reload, you can't effectively use rapid shot with it, we all want it to be a hand gun but it's not.

With rapid reload it doesn't, and you can.

Since we are really looking at away to make an effective ranged sneak attack it seems that a more effective weapon selection would be the DART. It is more concelable and a rapid shot could then be used to increase the number of sneak attacks performed in a round.

BZZT. You need to have quickdraw to use a dart, and we are talking about low-strength characters here, so they're taking a penalty to their damage for the dart. And of course it's got only 2/3rds the range of the crossbow. And darts are bigger than bolts.

If staying on the limits of range is an issue then the inclusion of "Far shot" opens up the weapons to the charcter because now they can incorporate a more effective use of Alchemists Fire, Holy Water, and Acid volleys into their options of support attacks. It also gives the preffered short bow the same effetive range as its bigger cousin.

Grenade like weapons cannot be quickdrawn, so they are generally inferior to... anything else. There are situations where they are effective, but not in a general sense.

This line of thinking is particularly attractive to the person playing a Halfling rouge because they get an extra +1 when using a thrown weapon.

And, on average, a -1 to damage. And since you can't power attack ranged weapons...

Rapid reload seems to be a feat that sucks people but unless you are using BiG Big cross bow in the "Quitisential Fighter" that weighs 25lbs and ignore armor bonuses then it is a big of a waste. IMO

It would be a waste with the weapon you describe. It is a waste with a heavy crossbow.

The only time it's worth it is when it reduces reloading the crossbow to a free action.

 

[Deset Gled]

Grenade like weapons cannot be quickdrawn, so they are generally inferior to... anything else. There are situations where they are effective, but not in a general sense.

Where does that come from? Quickdraw works with all weapons. AFAIK, grenadelike weapons shouldn't be treated any differently.