Virtual Spellbooks

[andargor]

I just had a thought: can spellbooks be duplicated using Permanent Image? Sure, it's immobile, but it would be a great way of safeguarding spellbook contents if the original gets destroyed or stolen. Just rebuild from the image.

This would also be a great way of having a library with contents that cannot be burned...

Thoughts?

Andargor

 

[Felix]

From SRD
Permanent Image
Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Effect: Figment that cannot extend beyond a 20-ft. cube + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Permanent (D)
This spell functions like silent image, except that the figment includes visual, auditory, olfactory, and thermal elements, and the spell is permanent. By concentrating, you can move the image within the limits of the range, but it is static while you are not concentrating.
Material Component: A bit of fleece plus powdered jade worth 100 gp.

You might be on to something here... except that this seems terribly unbalancing. After all, it takes a huge amount of money to craft a backup spellbook, which is what this does, and this costs 100gp. True, this can be dispelled, but no other wizard can look through it if captured. But it doesn't seem as if the rules are against it.

 

[Keith]

It seems as though you can move the entire image of an item, but not manipulate parts of the image. So, an image of a book (silent, permanent, whatever) might have an accurate, even legible cover, but it would not have any of the function of a book- pages could not turn, as they don’t exist as part of the image. It is not a virtual book, really- more the equivalent of a picture of a book.
On top of that, I don’t think any image of a magical item can reproduce the magical function; an image of a scroll can look correct, but not be suitable for copying as an actual spell, I think. Same for a spellbook.

Cheers

 

[Terath Ninir]

It seems as though you can move the entire image of an item, but not manipulate parts of the image. So, an image of a book (silent, permanent, whatever) might have an accurate, even legible cover, but it would not have any of the function of a book- pages could not turn, as they don’t exist as part of the image. It is not a virtual book, really- more the equivalent of a picture of a book.

For a 6th level spell, you darn well better be able to move the parts! I'm pretty sure the lower level illusions specifically state you can, so you can on this spell, too.

On top of that, I don’t think any image of a magical item can reproduce the magical function; an image of a scroll can look correct, but not be suitable for copying as an actual spell, I think. Same for a spellbook.

I don't think spellbooks qualify as magic items. They certainly aren't the same case as a scroll.

However, I think that part of what is supposed to make a spellbook into a spellbook is the time, effort, and material put into writing out the spells. In this case, while you get an image of the book, I don't think it would work as a spellbook. However, if you're talking about using it as a guide to recreate your original spellbook, I'd allow that in a heartbeat. I'm sure the image would have more than enough information for that.

 

[Keith]

“For a 6th level spell, you darn well better be able to move the parts! I'm pretty sure the lower level illusions specifically state you can, so you can on this spell, too.”

Sure, could be. But an illusion of a book with its pages turning is one thing; saying the every page is a perfect rendition of, say, those of Moby Dick, seems like a whole different level of recreation to me; how could anyone build such an image in their mind? It is interesting, and I’m not saying I get a firm idea from the rules, more that it is something that isn’t too firmly described.

“I don't think spellbooks qualify as magic items. They certainly aren't the same case as a scroll.”

Well, my thinking is that when you find someone else’s spellbook, it functions quite a bit as though it were a pack of scrolls. Do spellbooks radiate magic? I don’t recall. I think they should, but even if they don’t, they certainly function magically- spells can be cast directly from them, or transcribed, just like scrolls. Are they magic items? Again, I don’t know. I actually meant magical items in a broad sense, not magic items in the technical sense.

At any rate, there is clearly a different take, there, and I agree that there is sound logic to it. I could go either way, really.

Cheers

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do spellbooks radiate magic?

No, they don't.

... spells can be cast directly from them...

No, they can't.

-Hyp.

 

[Staffan]

The process of "preparing" spells involves casting a significant portion of the spell and leaving the final bits "hanging." IMC, this process basically uses various diagrams and the like that are in the spellbook as foci. This is why you need the mega-expensive inks and stuff - use lesser materials, and the process will turn your spellbook into ash (this was inspired by one of the designers' reason for the expense of spellbooks - I think it was Sean Reynolds, but I'm not sure). An illusory spellbook would certainly not qualify as a focus.

 

[andargor]

However, if you're talking about using it as a guide to recreate your original spellbook, I'd allow that in a heartbeat. I'm sure the image would have more than enough information for that.

Yes, that's mainly what I'm talking about. Although preparing spells from a "virtual spellbook" would be cool, I would be satisfied with just being able to rebuild it (and pay the money to do so).

This way, a wizard isn't totally screwed when his/her spellbook is lost.

Sure, could be. But an illusion of a book with its pages turning is one thing; saying the every page is a perfect rendition of, say, those of Moby Dick, seems like a whole different level of recreation to me; how could anyone build such an image in their mind? It is interesting, and I’m not saying I get a firm idea from the rules, more that it is something that isn’t too firmly described.

I agree that the spell descriptions don't go into how much detail can go into an illusion. I would say "it's magic" and not try to figure out how it applies to the "real world".

However, if the DM required a combination of Permanent Image and something like Amanuensis to get the detail into the "virtual spellbook", I would still think it would be worth it as a backup.

The process of "preparing" spells involves casting a significant portion of the spell and leaving the final bits "hanging."

Per the RAW, what you are talking about are scrolls, where only the last part of casting the spell isn't written down.

Andargor

 

[Saeviomagy]

Use fabricate, and produce the entire spellbook for 1/3rd the basic price.

Actually - a wizard should be able to get a craft skill which would allow him to craft his inks for 1/3rd the base price anyway...

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, it's an illusion, so you could convince someone it really has spells in it, but it wouldn't. It'd be a nice way to screw with an enemy mage, though. *grin*