Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
So far so good.Looking for clarification on how to handle the following scenario:
Are the following assumptions correct?
- Party of four adventurers, fighter in the front carrying a torch (bright light in 20 feet radius, dim light in 20 feet radius)
- Party enters a dark room via an open archway (no door)
- Party is not actively looking for danger (no active Perception checks)
- Kobold (darkvision 60 ft) is in the room
- The kobold can see the adventurers approaching (without making a check) because they are carrying a light source
- The adventurers can't see the kobold at all as long as it stays outside the 40 foot light radius from the torch
No. Once the kobold is within the dim light radius, the party can see it, and the guideline for stealth is “you can’t hide from a creature that can see you.” However, the kobold can hide if it remains in the darkness beyond the torchlight.3. The kobold can try to hide in the dim light of the torch (between 20 and 40 feet from the fighter, let's assume it's 30 feet away)
Basically, but for clarity of how the rules work, technically all creatures make a Dexterity check when they try to hide. Having the Stealth skill merely allows the creature to add their proficiency bonus to the Dexterity check. In the case of monster stat blocks, they do the math of adding those values together next to skills they are proficient in.4. The kobold doesn't have a Stealth score, so uses its Dexterity bonus (+2) to hide
Not according to the scenario you set up. You said the party isn’t looking for danger. A passive check “represent(s) the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.” Personally, I would rule that if the party is not continuously looking for signs of danger, then it isn’t appropriate for them to make a passive Wisdom (Stealth) check, and the kobold would succeed at its attempt to hide without a check.5. The kobold's Dexterity (Stealth) check is opposed by the passive Perception scores of the PCs
Assuming the party had been watching for danger, then yes, their passive Wisdom (Perception) checks would be at -5 to notice anything in the dim light visually. They would also be unable to notice anything in the darkness visually, which again, is a precondition for the kobold to be able to hide.6. The passive Perception score is penalized by -5 because of the dim light
I would argue that neither the fighter nor any of the rest of the party even got to make a passive Wisdom (Perception) check, which does seem like reasonable grounds to say they’re surprised at the start of combat,7. Let's assume the fighter with the torch fails his passive Perception check, he is now surprised
No. As soon as the kobold enters the dim light, it can be seen and is therefore no longer hidden from the party. Being surprised doesn’t prevent a character from seeing what’s in front of them. If the kobold wants to remain hidden, it would be more effective to remain in the darkness and use a ranged attack. That said, surprise is still incredibly useful, even if you aren’t hidden from your targets at the time when you attack them.8. Let's assume the kobold wins initiative and goes first
9. The kobold can now use its move (30 feet) to approach the fighter
10. After the first 10 feet of movement, the kobold enters the area of 20 feet bright illumination around the fighter, but does not need to make a new Stealth check
11. The kobold still counts as an "unseen attacker" and can attack the fighter with advantage on the attack roll
12. After making the first attack, the kobold has now given away his location (regardless of whether he hits or misses), and is no longer unseen
Ranged attacks.Items 10-12 are the crux of the question: Will the kobold be able to attack with advantage, or is he no longer considered "unseen" as soon as he steps into the bright light? If so, how would a darkness-dwelling creature ever be able to attack a torch-bearer with advantage?
Small nitpick, but the way a cone is defined in 5e (its width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin) is actually only 1 radian, or 57.2958 degrees, so two bullseye lanterns angled this way would only cover a 2-radian, or 114.592 degree arc.Bonus question: Assume two PCs in the front row, each carrying a bullseye lantern (casts bright light in a 60-foot cone and dim light for an additional 60 feet) at a slight angle from each other, so it covers a 180-degree half-circle in front of the party (and perhaps the same for the two PCs in the back).
Bullseye lanterns are pretty useful, for sure. Though since they only shed light in a cone instead of a sphere, a lot of players don’t really bother with them, since they leave you much more vulnerable to attacks from the flanks. As you say, enemies can hide behind cover, wait for the lantern bearers to pass, and then attack from behind while remaining unseen.While monsters would still be able to surprise this party (by hiding in the dim light, thus giving a -5 to the passive Perception of the PCs), "normal" monsters with 30 feet of movement would not be able to (melee) attack on the first round of combat, because they would need to take the Dash action in order to close the distance to the PCs? Apart from obviously giving away your position to every creature in the dungeon (and problems with using shields and two-handed weapons at the same time as carrying lanterns), why wouldn't a party of PCs always be carrying as many bullseye lanterns as possible? I guess if the room had features such as columns, statues, furniture, etc the monsters could use these to hide behind and be closer than 30 feet regardless of the level of illumination?
A good strategy for a party is to have bullseye lanterns in the front ranks and torches or hooded lanterns in the middle and back ranks.
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