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Vision & Light

scruffygrognard

Adventurer
The description of lighting given in the PHB left me scratching my head, as I felt that the conditions for dim light and darkness were far too prevalent to warrant the associated penalties. I'm using the slightly tweaked write up below for my games:

VISION AND LIGHT
The most fundamental tasks of adventuring — noticing danger, finding hidden objects, hitting an enemy in combat, and targeting a spell, to name just a few — rely heavily on a character’s ability to see. Darkness and other effects that obscure vision can prove a significant hindrance.

A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

A heavily obscured area — such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage — blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A).

The presence or absence of light in an environment creates three categories of illumination: bright light, dim light, and darkness.

Bright light lets most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide bright light, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of illumination within a specific radius. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as bright light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in bright light.

Dim light, also called deep shadow, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. Characters face dim light outdoors on most moonlit nights or indoors when embers in a fireplace or moonlight through a window provide some light to see by.

Darkness, also called complete darkness or pitch-black, creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors on a moonless night, within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.
 
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Sadrik

First Post
Mask of the Wild (PHB 24 replace Mask of the Wild)
You have proficiency in the stealth skill.

Naturally Stealthy (PHB 28 replace Naturally stealthy)
You have proficiency in the stealth skill.

Hide in Plain Sight (PHB 92 replace Hide in Plain Sight)
Starting at 10th level, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other natural occurring materials with which to create your camouflage.

Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide be pressing yourself up against a solid surface such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are. Make a DC 20 Dexterity (Stealth) check to become hidden as if in heavy obscurement. You remain hidden as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.

Supreme Sneak (PHB 97 no change)
Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you move no more than half your speed on the same turn.

Skulker (PHB 170 replace Skulker)
Prerequisite Dexterity 13 or higher. You are an expert at slinking through the shadows. You gain the following benefits:
• You can move full speed while sneaking without disadvantage on your Dexterity (Stealth) checks.
• When you are hidden from a creature and miss it with a ranged weapon attack, making the attack does not reveal your position.
• Dim light does not impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on sight.

Finding a Hidden Object (PHB 178 replace Finding a Hidden Object)
When your character searches for a hidden object such as a secret door or a trap, the DM typically asks you to make a Intelligence (Investigation) check. Such a check can be used to find hidden details or other information and clues that you might otherwise overlook.

In most cases, you need to describe where you are looking in order for the DM to determine your chance of success. For example, a key is hidden beneath a set of folded clothes in the top drawer of a bureau. If you tell the DM that you pace around the room, looking at the walls and furniture for clues, you have no chance of finding the key, regardless of your Intelligence (Investigation) check result. You would have to specify that you were opening the drawers or searching the bureau in order to have any chance of success.

Hiding (PHB 177 replace Hiding)
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. You can’t hide from a creature that can see you, you need to have obscurement to hide in. To become hidden in light obscurement the DC is typically 20. In heavy obscurement you are automatically hidden, though you may need to also remain quiet to avoid detection DC is typically 10. Advantage and disadvantage can be applied based on range, armor, and background noise though.

To determine whether you notice a hidden creature, you use the search action and roll a Wisdom (Perception) check against a typical DC of 15 for light obscurement with disadvantage due to light obscurement. You cannot visually locate a creature in heavy obscurement.

Even if you do not visually notice a hidden creature, they might make noise and give away their position. In these cases, the DM may ask for a Wisdom (Perception) DC 20 check to determine if you can determine the location of the creature through non-visual cues. Signs of a hidden creature's passage might also be noticed visually, the DM may ask for a Intelligence (Investigation) DC 20 check to determine a creatures location. (see Hidden Attackers and Targets page 194)

Sneaking. In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, if you come out of hiding and approach a creature or move to a different piece of obscurement, you might be able to stay hidden. This requires a Dexterity (Stealth) check against the targets passive Wisdom (Perception). You move slowly while sneaking, every foot of movement costs 1 extra foot. You can move full speed with disadvantage.

Stealth (PHB 182 no change)
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7.

Noticing Threats (PHB 182-183 no change)
Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat. The DM might decide that a threat can be noticed only by characters in a particular rank. For example, as the characters are exploring a maze of tunnels, the DM might decide that only those characters in the back rank have a chance to hear or spot a stealthy creature following the group, while characters in the front and middle ranks cannot.

While traveling at a fast pace, characters take a –5 penalty to their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores
to notice hidden threats.

Encountering Creatures. If the DM determines that the adventurers encounter other creatures while they’re traveling, it’s up to both groups to decide what happens next. Either group might decide to attack, initiate a conversation, run away, or wait to see what the other group does.

Surprising Foes. If the adventurers encounter a hostile creature or group, the DM determines whether the adventurers or their foes might be surprised when combat erupts. See chapter 9 for more about surprise.

Obscurement (PHB 183 put above Vision and Light)
The most fundamental tasks of adventuring—noticing danger, finding hidden objects, hitting an enemy in combat, and targeting a spell, to name just a few—rely heavily on a character’s ability to see. Darkness and other effects that obscure vision can prove a significant hindrance.

In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, moderate foliage, or three-quarters cover and sometimes half cover, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, dense foliage, or total cover—prevents vision related tasks. A creature in a heavily obscured area is effectively hidden (see appendix A).

Vision and Light (PHB 183 replace Vision and Light)
The presence or absence of light in an environment creates three categories of illumination: bright light, dim light, and darkness.

Bright light lets most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide lit areas, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of illumination within a specific radius.

Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. Characters face dim light outdoors on most moonlit nights or indoors when embers in a fireplace or moonlight through a window provide some light to see by.

Darkness, also called complete darkness or pitch-black, creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors on a moonless night, within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.

Surprise (PHB 189 no change)
A band of adventurers sneaks up on a bandit camp, springing from the trees to attack them. A gelatinous cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains surprise over the other.

The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.

Search (PHB 193 replace Search)
When you take the Search action, you devote your attention to finding something. Depending on the nature of your search, the DM might have you make a Wisdom (Perception) check to notice a hidden creature or an Intelligence (Investigation) check to search for a secret door or an illusion.

Hidden Attackers and Targets (PHB 194-195 replace Unseen Attackers and Targets)
Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, lurking in darkness, or taking total cover.

When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.

When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly.

Cover (PHB 196 replace Cover)
Walls, trees, creatures, and other obstacles can provide cover during combat, making a target more difficult to harm. A target can benefit from cover only when an attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of the cover.

There are three degrees of cover. If a target is behind multiple sources of cover, only the most protective degree of cover applies; the degrees aren’t added together. For example, if a target is behind a creature that gives half cover and a tree trunk that gives three-quarters cover, the target has three-quarters cover.

A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend. At the DM's option any particular instance of half cover can also grant lightly obscured.

A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has three-quarters cover if about three-quarters of it is covered by an obstacle. The obstacle might be a portcullis, an arrow slit, or a thick tree trunk. Three-quarters cover grants lightly obscured.

A target with total cover can’t be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle. The target is also heavily obscured.

Blinded (PHB 290 no change)
• A blinded creature can’t see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
• Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have disadvantage.

Hidden (PHB 291 replace Invisible)
• A hidden creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
• Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have advantage.
• When you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses. Though depending on the source of hidden you still may be hidden.
 
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delericho

Legend
The write-up seems generally fine, but I'd note one thing:

Bright light: The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as bright light.

I actually always find that twilight and dawn are when my vision is worst. Too dark to see clearly, but also just light enough that using light sources makes insufficient difference. I'm really not enjoying my commute home at the moment. :(
 

scruffygrognard

Adventurer
My wife has the same problems at dawn and dusk BUT I think imposing disadvantage on all players Perception checks in those conditions is a bit harsh. Then again I may just have exceptional eyesight! :D
 

Sadrik

First Post
Wow! That's some write-up. I'll have to look it over and see what I'll pull from it.
Sadrik said:
Hiding (PHB 177 replace Hiding)
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. You can’t hide from a creature that can see you, you need to have obscurement or cover to hide in. To become hidden in light obscurement or cover the DC is typically 15 and in heavy obscurement it is automatic. Your armor may give you disadvantage on this check. To become hidden without any obscurement or cover the DC is 30.

When you are hidden, to determine whether a creature notices you, the creature uses the search action and rolls a Wisdom (Perception) check with any other bonuses or penalties against a typical DC of 15 for light obscurement.
So these are the crux of my changes. It removes the opposed roll and you roll against the terrain to hide essentially. Then they roll against the terrain to find you. I made the DC 15 and thought the DM can apply advantage or disadvantage if the terrain is easy or difficult to hide in. Things like armor and moving more than half speed would modify your roll to hide. And dim light modifies your roll to spot hidden. This morning I was thinking about expertise, this breaks the DC bounds. Is DC 15 the correct DC for hiding and spotting? (Edit: remember no one could even hide in light obscurement before - unless halfling, elf, or skulker)

Also, I threw in hide with no obscurement or cover at DC 30. Is this functionally relevant?
 


Sadrik

First Post
I updated my post above to include many more DC's in the Hiding section. I also clarified it a bit too. I want with the DC of being 20 for lightly obscured area. The reason is it should be hard to do it. The rules currently do not allow you to do it without halfling in half cover with the caveat that half cover is another creature or a elf who is in a woodland setting or a character with the skulker feat. So setting it at 20 makes it difficult and accounts for rogue/bard expertise which can break the bounds of accuracy.
 

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