VoP vs. Call Weapon

[irdeggman]

Can it be destroyed. Sort of - you can just create a new one. Can you sell it? No. It is NOT a magical item - only very, very much like one.

No sort of about it. It can be broken. Where yuo obtain a new one from is irrelevant.

Whether or not an item can be sold is likewise irrelevent.

The cost of an item is likewise irrelevent (compare the cost of items to the cost of a non-magical, non-masterwork heavy crossbow).

Whether you craft an item yourself or buy it is likewise irrelevent. It is what yuo can own and use that matters.

Only humans can take VoP at first level so any other race has equipment to start with. Whether or not you give up your possession before or after you take the VoP at first level is questionable - I would go with everything is in parallel and favor the player.

 

[Artoomis]

... It is what yuo can own and use that matters.

Well, that's true enough. The Mindblade is not a possession, though. It's a manifestation of psychic energy. As such, it is used just like a weapon, but it is NOT an actual weapon.

It does not matter how closely it resembles an actual magic weapon, it is a manifestation of energy. No way is that the same thing. It simply is not an actual item.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Hyp's post, #57 said what I was going to say.

Casting a spell such as bless makes it magic for the duration of the spell, so it can overcome damage reduction, ect.

As for the weapon like spells, they are seplls and not items so they dont break the vow.

Frank covered the rest. Any possesion not on the list is not allowed.


---Rusty

 

[Artoomis]

...Frank covered the rest. Any possesion not on the list is not allowed.


---Rusty

Absoutely. However, what about when an item is specifically allowed happens to be dueal-purpose? For example, a quarterstaff that also happens to be a holy symbol. Note that possession of a quarterstaff is specifically allowed, whereas a holy symbol is simply not allowed becasue it is not on the list - as opposes to actually prohibted (there is a difference).

In other words, one could not have a holy symbol hanging around your neck (because it's not on this list of allowed items) but one could have a quarterstaff that also happened to be your holy symbol (because a quartstaff is on the list).

This would NOT be true if all divine foci were specifcally prohibited, but they are not. Thus, if your divine foci happens to be an actual item that is allowed (on the list) you can have it.

 

[Blightersbane]

Denounce material possessions?
This means to me to place no value on nor attach any value to any tangible object. A Holy symbol would certainly have a “value” regardless of its cost. IMO, the ascetic VoP PC would not want to loose his Holy symbol, he may regret even mourn its loss, it would therefore constitute a value and not be permissible by the VoP feat. I feel myself swaying towards the acceptance of a Soulknife VoP PC using the same reasoning. The mindblade being considered an in class spell like ability not an object, manifestation and not a possession that can be lost so there for no intrinsic value.

To me this seems to add consistent reasoning.

Blighterbane

 

[irdeggman]

Denounce material possessions?
This means to me to place no value on nor attach any value to any tangible object. A Holy symbol would certainly have a “value” regardless of its cost. IMO, the ascetic VoP PC would not want to loose his Holy symbol, he may regret even mourn its loss, it would therefore constitute a value and not be permissible by the VoP feat. I feel myself swaying towards the acceptance of a Soulknife VoP PC using the same reasoning. The mindblade being considered an in class spell like ability not an object, manifestation and not a possession that can be lost so there for no intrinsic value.

To me this seems to add consistent reasoning.

Blighterbane

It is stricter than merely being able to sell an item. You cannot use any magical items.

You can not borrow an item (and get around the not owning it issue) that is specifically called out.

A friend can use an item on you (like cast a spell or put a potion down your throat).

Is the mindblade (once it starts getting enhancement bonuses - before that iIMO it would not be considered magical) a magic item?

Psionics = magic is the standard rule.

It is not an effect. It can be broken. It has spell like abilities (well magical properties at least).

 

[Artoomis]

Denounce material possessions?
This means to me to place no value on nor attach any value to any tangible object. A Holy symbol would certainly have a “value” regardless of its cost. IMO, the ascetic VoP PC would not want to loose his Holy symbol, he may regret even mourn its loss, it would therefore constitute a value and not be permissible by the VoP feat. I feel myself swaying towards the acceptance of a Soulknife VoP PC using the same reasoning. The mindblade being considered an in class spell like ability not an object, manifestation and not a possession that can be lost so there for no intrinsic value.

To me this seems to add consistent reasoning.

Blighterbane

By that reasoning spell component pouches are out, and yet they are allowed.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Absoutely. However, what about when an item is specifically allowed happens to be dueal-purpose? For example, a quarterstaff that also happens to be a holy symbol. Note that possession of a quarterstaff is specifically allowed, whereas a holy symbol is simply not allowed becasue it is not on the list - as opposes to actually prohibted (there is a difference).

In other words, one could not have a holy symbol hanging around your neck (because it's not on this list of allowed items) but one could have a quarterstaff that also happened to be your holy symbol (because a quartstaff is on the list).

This would NOT be true if all divine foci were specifcally prohibited, but they are not. Thus, if your divine foci happens to be an actual item that is allowed (on the list) you can have it.

If you prayed to your staff, seeing as it was a symbol of your god, for example a druid who has Obbit Haid (Dont know how his name is spelled off hand) then you its allowed, so long as its not the focus its self, the holy symbol. My Vop Monk went as far as carving the Dragon God's likeness into his hand to pray to.

---Rusty

 

[DungeonMaester]

By that reasoning spell component pouches are out, and yet they are allowed.

Vop Characters are allowed only a certain amount of possessions that are nessasary.

---Rusty

 

[Artoomis]

It is stricter than merely being able to sell an item. You cannot use any magical items.

You can not borrow an item (and get around the not owning it issue) that is specifically called out.

A friend can use an item on you (like cast a spell or put a potion down your throat).

Is the mindblade (once it starts getting enhancement bonuses - before that iIMO it would not be considered magical) a magic item?

Psionics = magic is the standard rule.

It is not an effect. It can be broken. It has spell like abilities (well magical properties at least).

The mindblade is a psionic (magical, if you like) effect. Nothing more.

It is an effect that is basically the same as a magical weapon, but, still , it is a magical (psionic) effect, NOT an actual magical item, regardless of how much it might behave like one.

It is "a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind." It is most definitely NOT a magic item, no matter how closely it may resemble one in it's use and effects.