Vorpal Crits

[Kaodi]

I am not going to bother reading all 18 pages to see if it has been mentioned: Vorpal Blade Cascade, anyone?

 

[Andur]

Andur, saying that doesn't prove it. If you can provide a decent reason why you think that way, go for it. But I'm sick of you repeating the statement without countering any of the arguments against it.

I dunno, maybe that CServ quote which you choose to disregard...

IT gets back to a simple thing, if you don't roll dice by proxy in a critical hit than you do not do a damage roll, if you don't do a damage roll than you do not count anything but weapon damage and ability modifier. Since we all know that you do include feat, power, enhancement, and unnamed bonuses to crit damage, then we know that a damage roll took place. For a damage roll to happen dice have to be rolled, even if by proxy "rolling them until they come to maximum value". Which is precisely what the CServ answer is stating.

Carry on with your rantings of no proof and silly "rolls are not rolls" mantra though.

 

[DLichen]

Someone else along with me has already responded to the custserv quote which can't be used for close rules references since it doesn't pertain to the situation at hand.

The damage roll thing has already been countered by me multiple times, not once of which you have countered.

 

[Andur]

A ruling on the wording of critical hits doesn't pertain to if die are rolled during a critical hit?

Interesting...

 

[DLichen]

A ruling critical hits that doesn't deal with vorpal at all probably shouldn't be used to argue vorpal rules, yes.

 

[Lurker37]

I'm pretty sure somebody asked custserv and got that hunter's quarry, sneak, and devastating crit don't get rerolled since they are sources of damage not from the weapon.

Here's a contradiction from another customer service rep
I asked:

If you score a critical hit with a Vorpal Weapon (+6), and due to the critical hit take all weapon dice as if they had rolled maximum, do those automatically maximised weapon dice get rerolled due to the 'reroll on maximum' property of the vorpal weapon, or does the fact that the dice were not physically rolled mean it does not apply?

Do any of the weapon's 'critical: +6d12' dice get rerolled if they come up maximum?

Do the +3d12 dice from the daily power get rerolled on a natural 12?
Do they get maximised on a crit?

Does the Vorpal property allow effects like Hunter's Mark to be rerolled on a maximum? Does this apply on a crit?

They replied

Response (Support Agent) 06/25/2008 09:42 AM

XXXX,

Exactly as you said, crits with a vorpal weapon do not get the max die reroll as the dice were never actually rolled. Any damage dice rolled when hitting with a vorpal weapon are eligible to be rerolled when they come up as the maximum result. This includes the extra crit dice, the dice from the daily power, dice from Hunter's Quarry, etc. Also, the daily power dice are maxed on a crit just like damage from any power. Let me know if you have any more questions!

I've fired back a query on this contadicting the rules on 276, and asking when to apply which definition of 'rolling'. That should stir things up a little.

In short, not much faith in this answer.

 

[DLichen]

Yep, another good reason to never read too deeply into custserv rules. They are there to help keep your game going, not to pick between specifics.

 

[Andur]

Originally Posted by DLichen
I'm pretty sure somebody asked custserv and got that hunter's quarry, sneak, and devastating crit don't get rerolled since they are sources of damage not from the weapon.

Any attack which uses the Weapon keyword has all damage done by the weapon. But that is probably another whole thread.

Thanks for the info Lurker, for now, it would appear that CServ has some internal clarifications needed. BTW, can you post what you asked CServ?

Until something else from CServ comes out or errata, looks like the rolls not being rolls but yet counting as rolls school of thought is the current answer.

 

[DLichen]

Any attack which uses the Weapon keyword has all damage done by the weapon. But that is probably another whole thread.

Thanks for the info Lurker, for now, it would appear that CServ has some internal clarifications needed. BTW, can you post what you asked CServ?

Until something else from CServ comes out or errata, looks like the rolls not being rolls but yet counting as rolls school of thought is the current answer.

Hahaha, ok.

Man, that sounds stupid when you say it like that. I agree, errata for clarification needs to come out soon.

 

[Andur]

See we can be friends after all.

BTW sorry for being snarky yesterday, real life flowover to the boards...