Vow of Poverty and Cohorts

[irdeggman]

So if VoP assumes that a PC will get his/her equal portion of the treasure, would it not be possible to simply split that portion equally between the PC and cohort(s)? The PC would then have his "share" to donate to charity and the cohort(s) would have enough dough to buy decent equipment.

In a 4 character party, the VoP PC gets 1/4 of the treasure. After splitting this with his/her cohort, s/he gives 1/8 of the treasure to charity. This will still be a very handsome amount and should definitely be seen as keeping the vow, especially since the PC has not used any of the treasure on personal equipment.

I would say that the intent is laid out in the quote I gave,

"Having a character in the party who has taken a vow of poverty should not necessarily mean that the other party members get bigger shares of treasure!. . . . ."


Which would translate into the PC gets his full share and that goes to charity.

Now if there is a separate "deal" with the cohort that is an entirely different question - but the cohort is not entitled to any more simply because the ascetic can't keep his share of treasure.

pg 105 of the DMG has information on cohorts and treasure.

Although the PCs can work out other deals, their cohorts usually get only a half share of any treasure the party gains. Sometimes a cohort seeks no pay, only the opportunity to serve alongside the PCs. Such cohorts require only living costs. However, they are not common.

The easiest way to calculate a half share is to treat the cohort as getting a full share, but award him or her only half, and then divide out the remainder to the group.

So the cohort doesn't receive part of the "leader's" share, but rather part of the whole, normally.

 

[Shin Okada]

I would say that the intent is laid out in the quote I gave,

So the cohort doesn't receive part of the "leader's" share, but rather part of the whole, normally.

Yeah, that is the default rule. For example, if 4 men + 1 cohort party gets 4,500gp. Each PCs get 1,000 gp and the VoP guy donate/charity that 1,000gp. On the other hand the cohort gets 500 gp and if he does not have VoP, he can buy appropriate gear by using those money.

In 3.5e, a cohort does not decrease the amount of XP share of each PCs. But does decrease the amount of treasure share of each PCs

And remember, though many DMs just put cohorts under the control of players, that is not the original intention of this rule. Cohort is NPC and not an option of PC. So, that is the DM who decides for what that Cohort uses those money.

 

[irdeggman]

And remember, though many DMs just put cohorts under the control of players, that is not the original intention of this rule. Cohort is NPC and not an option of PC. So, that is the DM who decides for what that Cohort uses those money.

Actually I think that is the original intent and that having the DM control the cohort is the commonly used house-rule.

DMG pg 106

Be sure to consider the effect of a PC having a cohort. A cohort is effectively another PC in the party under that player's control, one whose share of XP, treasure, and spotlight time is bound to take something away from the other players' characters.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually I think that is the original intent and that having the DM control the cohort is the commonly used house-rule.

DMG pg 106

It will depend on the interpretation of "effectively" in that sentence. Cohorts are royal to the leader. They usually just obey what the leader PC says. And level-up along with PCs and fight along with PCs, share treasures. And sometimes a cohort may become "the hero of that day's session". In my understanding, that sentence is pointing out those fact and telling be careful to make a decision if allow one or not. But they are still NPCs anyway.

PHB.311

nonplayer character (NPC): A character controlled by the Dungeon Master rather than by one of the other players in a game session. as opposed to a player character.

They are meant to be controlled by the DM, not the player.

 

[carborundum]

But could a VoP character equip a cohort from his share, then donate the rest?
Or is the share belonging to the VoP character 100% promised to charity, meaning that the cohort will have to get his own stuff, perhaps from a half share negotiated with the party by the VoP player.
Perhaps the easiest solution would be to give the cohort a share out of the VoP player's pile o' loot and have the DM spend it. Otherwise the Poverty character must start becoming a consumer to buy the right equipment for his cohort, which is definately against the anti-materialism spirit of the Vow.

 

[Shin Okada]

But could a VoP character equip a cohort from his share, then donate the rest?

Well, basically, it will depend on the method of distributing loots on that party. Actually, each party have their own rules.

But anyway, BoED says that having a VoP PC may not increase the amount of loots other pcs get. If so, so should be the share of the cohort. VoP PC and his cohort are indeed different character and each has their own "share". The cohort's "share" should remain the half amount of each PCs. And VoP character should use most of his share for charity. At least, if I were the DM, I will do like this.

IMHO, Leadership and Cohort rules should not be used to abuse VoP in any way.

Rules in BoED are easily abusable as they depend largely on roleplaying and the sprit of the book's concept. Some of my friend DMs call the book as "the Book of Indelicacy Deeds".

 

[irdeggman]

But could a VoP character equip a cohort from his share, then donate the rest?

I would say no - not per the the wording of the cohort treasure, nor per the wording of the VoP rules.

Or is the share belonging to the VoP character 100% promised to charity, meaning that the cohort will have to get his own stuff, perhaps from a half share negotiated with the party by the VoP player.

This is the intent of the rules as written, based on the other stuff (like not a means for other PCs to gain more treasure) and the fact that cohorts are supposed to get a share of the treasure themselves and not part of the PC's share.

Perhaps the easiest solution would be to give the cohort a share out of the VoP player's pile o' loot and have the DM spend it. Otherwise the Poverty character must start becoming a consumer to buy the right equipment for his cohort, which is definately against the anti-materialism spirit of the Vow.

Nope, while easier it tends to violate the poverty (and cohort) rules - this falls under the using the VoP character's restriction to give more to the rest of the party.

It is clear that the cohort is supposed to get his own share of treasure.

 

[s-dub]

This is the intent of the rules as written, based on the other stuff (like not a means for other PCs to gain more treasure) and the fact that cohorts are supposed to get a share of the treasure themselves and not part of the PC's share.

...It is clear that the cohort is supposed to get his own share of treasure.

I somewhat agree:

When we add a cohort to the group, the cohort's share can come from different sources. Some DM's make the character equip cohort out of their earnings. Others may give the cohort a cut of the loot directly from the parties loot as it is being divvied. Any cohort equipped from the party's kitty should get his/her share. The real question is whether or not the VoP character is "hiring" the cohot for the present value of the expected treasure gained by the cohort or if the cohort is joining the party at large.

That's a hard call to make.

 

[irdeggman]

The complication: when we add a cohort to the mix, the cohort's share can come from different sources. Some DM's make the character equip cohort out of their earnings. Others may give the cohort a cut of the loot directly from the parties loot as it is being divvied. Any cohort equipped from the party's kitty should get his/her share. The real question is whether or not the VoP character is "hiring" the cohot for the present value of the expected treasure gained by the cohort or if the cohort is joining the party at large.

That's a hard call to make.

The problem arises because the DM made a house-rule to have the PC pay the cohort himself instead of the cohort getting a share of the treasure directly (as specified in the DMG (i.e., the default rule)). Once a DM makes a house-rule then that will cause (or most likely will cause) a slew of other house-rules to balance out the original rule modification. Like in this case.

Although the PCs can work out other deals, their cohorts usually get only a half share of any treasure the party gains. Sometimes a cohort seeks no pay, only the opportunity to serve alongside the PCs. Such cohorts require only living costs. However, they are not common.

As someone pointed out earlier the cohort does not take away xp from the PCs but he can get them more (and more treasure). This is because the cohort will usually count as a character for purposes of EL determination.

Now the person who suggested that some DMs do not award flat out shares of treasure to the party, but instead give out variable amounts circumstancially - well in that case VoP should not be allowed because of the "balance" issues it will cause.

The same should probably be done if the DM has the PC pay his cohort out of his share of the treasure.

Those types of combinations do not mesh well.

 

[Dargon]

Are you abusing vow of poverty by giving a part of you loot to the cohort. My answer is no you are not. As long that you are not giving him all his share of the loot but only what you would do under normal circumstances (GMs should point out if they don't think this is done by the VoP charector). The cohort does not benefit from the VoP so why should it suffer from the drawbacks. You do not gain a better Cohort by doing this but you are keeping status quo. Neither is it against the spirit of WoP. A WoP character that does not give a cohort his fair share of the loot for it’s work is cruel. Not very exalted.