Vow of Poverty and Wizards

[Creamsteak]

Just a question if I take VoP can I retain my spellbook as long as I scribe no spells except those that come from levelling up ? (Just want to make sure the concept is viable).

Sorry to add to the already stockpiled list of VoP threads, but here's one more that I'd like some helpful clarity on. I'm inclined to say "yes" even though it might be making an exception to the rule. Spellbooks do have some degree of worth, often very large at higher levels. However, a spellbook is required in order for a wizard to be able to do his wizarding, and it seems necessary that they be permitted (at the very least) their leveling based spells.

 

[Artoomis]

Some interesting points about wizards with VoP:

1. A spellbook is obviously required, or the VoP cannot work. But that's only the beginning, but that alone could be allowed, though it is a stretch.
2. No backpack or other carrying place for the spellbook. Where do you carry it? If you don't carry it, where do you store it?
3. What about inks, etc., required for scribing spells, even those for leveling up. Where do they come from?
4. Item creation, scrolls, potions, etc., etc. is right out the window. No money to work with. I suppose you could do it for someone else, if they provided everything except the experience points and feats needed.

Who does VoP work for?

Barbarian. Okay, but not great.
Bard. Problematical - can't own an instrument, but could always use "voice" as his instrument, I suppose.
Cleric. Excellent synergy. Slight problems working out how to own a holy symbol. Works very well with the other vows, too.
Druid. Much like clerics. Maybe better, since they normally rely even less on equipment than clerics.
Fighters. Okay, but not great.
Monk. Stellar synergy. Probably the best choice, but I like cleric a lot, too.
Paladin. Workable, but it would be a challenge. Is the mount "owned?" I don't think so, but that could be an issue. Great role-playing opportunities here.
Ranger. Much like a fighter - a challenge, but workable.
Rogue. Definitely possible, but he'll never have any tools, so skill selections will be... interesting.
Sorcerer. An excellent choice, I think.
Wizard. Worst choice - many issues regarding spell books, inks, etc. Could never create items (well, possibly could, but only with help). Many, many issues that would be difficult to work, not all of which are obvious right away.

VoP is definitely not ideal for all classes.

 

[Kalanyr]

I'm the player this concerns, so yeah thats to make sure it doesn't seem like a hidden bias attack.

Vow of Poverty allows the possession of a sack to carry stuff IIRC.

 

[Creamsteak]

Technically, I think you could spell mastery a whole series of spells. You'd have a spell list even more limited than a sorcerer, but you'd still be a wizard with the vow. Spell Mastery would indeed by the solution, and if it were allowed as an Exalted feat, that would help.

You are permitted a sack or bag, most definitely (though it usually only contains a days worth of food).

 

[Sejs]

Eschew Materials feat and one level in Blood Magus from Tome and Blood.


And you may want to invest in ranks of the Heal skill.

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I would say that Wizards get a cheapie spellbook, you know, maybe they found a tattered balnk book that some binder threw away because there was some sort of printing error. I would say that at each level up, you could bum some ink from someone to write your new spells in. Researching new spells would be right out. Item creation feats would also be barred, but not everyone wants those feats anyway, they're not that key to the wizard's abilities, most wizards I have know took spell mastery every wizard bonus feat they earned.

Oh, and druids work much better with VoP. The reason? Wildhsape. Those bonuses don't go away just because you turned into a bear, you know, they modify your abilities. Especially when you add in the fact that exalted feats are SU abilities, and therefore have a DC of 10 +1/2 HD + Cha modifier, you can do some sick things with VoP, Wildshape, and Touch of Golden Ice.

Seriously, I have seen so many absolutely sick combos with a VoP druid that there is no doubt in my mind that druid is the absolute best with VoP. (VoP clerics and monks make the most IC sense though, IMO)

 

[Pax]

Yeah, I have a Druid/Epic Shifter with the Saint Template (level adjustment increased to +4) and Vow of Poverty. It's actually surprisingly able to compete, even at early Epic levels.

 

[Hammerhead]

If a spellbook is allowed, then it might completely skew the Vow of Poverty rules. A spellbook frequently takes up a large portion of each wizard's wealth, and allowing an Ascetic Wizard the ability to scribe spells into his spellbook will probably unbalance an already-iffy feat.

If the Wizard is only allowed his two spells every level, he's hamstrung. A sorcerer will usually know more spells than he does, and be able to cast them a lot more often, whenever he wants to.

 

[Scion]

Personally I would make another, seperate feat for them to use. It would allow them to put their spells per level onto a staff. They would have to work them on by hand useing whatever anyone can spare or that they can have normally (sharp rocks on the side of the road?).

This would allow them to have a certain number of spells per level. Plus, I would make an exalted feat that allowed them to pick up a lot of good based spells per level to scratch on the staff as well.

Sure, it is a bit of a work around, but with a high cost and still limited in its own fashion I think it would work out well. Plus be very flavorful.

Everyone can own a walking staff, if for some reason the feat disallows owning a piece of wood such as that then I will overlook that as well ;p

 

[Artoomis]

Personally I would make another, seperate feat for them to use. It would allow them to put their spells per level onto a staff. They would have to work them on by hand useing whatever anyone can spare or that they can have normally (sharp rocks on the side of the road?).

This would allow them to have a certain number of spells per level. Plus, I would make an exalted feat that allowed them to pick up a lot of good based spells per level to scratch on the staff as well.

Sure, it is a bit of a work around, but with a high cost and still limited in its own fashion I think it would work out well. Plus be very flavorful.

Everyone can own a walking staff, if for some reason the feat disallows owning a piece of wood such as that then I will overlook that as well ;p

Very nice. I see it going something like this:

A wizard may take the Exalted Feat: Magic Stick.

Magic Stick: Prereq: VoP and class requirement for a spell book.
The character may inscribe his spells (at no cost) on an ordinary staff or walking stick that will then serve as his spell book. Only spells obtained during the process of obtaining new levels may be so inscribed, though spells previously learned also be inscribed.

I have no problem with a feat that lets them inscibe other spells as well (perhaps only those with a "good" descriptor - let's call the feat Exalted Magic Stick, maybe), but I'm not sure how they could learn them, since they cannot use a scroll or spell book to learn them without violating the VoP. Maybe they can be taught the spell by another character.