mecra said:
Wow Pax... did I step on your poor wittle footsie?
Did I step on your nonexistant little point?
And if you actually read one of my previous posts, you would see that I am not a munchkin...
I'd sayyou were. You think thatthe party is beholden tog et allthe loot they want, and pay-no-never-mind to what the rules say they
should have at any given point. And to support that, you cite the occurrancein some campaignsof rampant Monty Haulism. To me, that's munchkin, through and through.
Oh, and it's VERY EASY to not have control over a party's loot and "expected wealth."
No, it's easy to
have control, because that's the default condition. To
lose control, you must
actively pursue that loss.
Do nothing, and you retain control of the party's wealth.
Apparenlty you have never had a campaign that switched GMs at key plot points?
Nope,not a single time. For one, I despise multiple-GM setups; if the group has multiple GMs and each one wants to run a game, then the group should simply have
multiple campaigns running. One group I was in did just that; one GM ran Shadowrun or Battletech/Mechwarrior, another ran D&D2E, another ran a
different D&D 2E, and so on. We'd decide each week what we'd be playing the NEXT week. No single set of characters andplotlines had more than a SINGLE GM.
For two, everyone I've ever gamed with face-to-face has felt the same about "shared GMing" setups: utter loathing.
You've never just run a scenario, then have a DIFFERENT GM run one next time with the same characters?
Not so it affects what happens the next time I run a scenario. My campaign is
my campaign, so even if someone uses the same character elsewhere ... not one XP nor single bent copper piece makes it back to
my table.
Now, say your group has three different GMs with six different players... belittlements aside I think you can see where I am going with this. If you are in a group that has ONE and ONLY ONE GM, then you could absolutely control everything. But don't expect us with multiple GMs to keep spreadsheets of all our characters just so each GM doesn't give more than allocated amount.
You con't need a spreadsheet. Eahc Gm should simply look at what is on the sheets of hte characters who will take part in their game(s), tally up the totals,
and dole out loot accordingly.
If, that is, they want to play by the rules as published.
If not, thenit's their
house rule(s) that
change things formhow the game, as sold,
works.
That would be a book keeping nightmare for all three GMs and the six players. So, don't expect us to have to all follow your examples just because you are jaded against the VoP.
ROFLMAO. It'snot hard to have a reasonable estimate of value. "Hum, a plus two shield, plus four armor, and an adamantine, plus one sword? ... six scrolls ... two level one, three level two, and a level four? ... eight cure moderate wounds potions and a Wand of Detect Magic? .. a couple other minor items, I see; and I also see your coins and gems total to about 4,000gp ... hmm, including mundane gear that's ... oh, close enough to call it
about twenty-five thousand gold; gee, that's a couple thousand below what I'd expect; I guess I won't have to be too stingy this time around - good, I have a dange- er, I mean, LUCRATIVE scenario in mind this week ... *evil GM grin*"
Add it up, that's not an unfair estimate of what that sort of equipment list would cost. No, it's not exact, but - youhardly need to count every last copper. Having a decent ballpark (to within 2% of the expected value, or 25gp for the much lower levels), is probably as accurate as any GM needs to be on-the-fly.
But between sessions, yes, the GM should have a fair idea, to within a hundred gold or so,of how much each character has, and what the party has as a total.
And I'mnot "jaded against the VoP"; I rather like it now, though I have my own slight revision (you could see it at the Exodus, if you follow hte link in my SIG), which adds in Inherent Bonusses to attributes, but thins the bonus feats out a LOT.
Oh, and yes, it extends itself into the early Epic levels too.
However, I dispute that it's UNDERpowered, simply because it WOULD cost more than a character of that level SHOULD have available, to get similar abilities
without the restrictions of the Vow.
Given the wealth levels
listed inthe DMG, it's about right. If you play a poorer campaign, you need to lower the benefits of the Vow. OTOH, if you play a wealthier campaign - like the Monty Haul game you implicitly describe - then it should be adjusted UPwards in power.
Oh, and let me not forget to mention that we usually are missing 1-2 players per week. Again, we're not going to number crunch just for the sake of crunching and someone said somewhere that we had to. We play it, "by ear."
No, it sounds to me like you play it "not at all", and just dole out the loot like it's going out of style. I mean, come on; artifacts? Epic items? LOTS of dragons, then not only keeping the dragon's hoard but ALSO getting a LARGE reward from the king?
If you think the DM's guide is fact, then guess what... every book they write after that is fact!
The DMG and PHB
are fact,
if you play by the rules presented therein. If you don't, then you've entered House Rules country and shouldn't use whatyou do as an argument
supposedly based on the rules as written.
If you don't like the VoP, I can find someone that doesn't like the "expected wealth" rule. Its a horse apiece. You want me to fully adhere to the expected wealth and have to surrender to your version of the VoP? Why don't you surrender to MY version of the E.W??
I never siad you had to "surrender" to diddly.
As written, played in a game run by the rules
as written (yes, that includes Expected Wealth by Level) - it's surprisingly balanced, despite how it first looks.
I happen to like the
feel of my own version better (which actually
does increase the wealth needed, by quite a bit, to mimick it's abilities - the Exodus is actually a bit on the welathy/powerful side for it's level, since more of folks' gear is (predictably) focussed on combat). But that's neither here nor there.
WotC wrote the book, they tested the book with their testers and their special forum, and they put in rules and such that keep people from abusing the rules to a reasonably degree.
And I'll say the same exact thing back to you
about Expected Wealth by Level. LOL.
