Vow of Poverty: Power Analysis

[Lord Pendragon]

Like I said, he takes stuff the party doesn't want to use. If they find a carpet of flying and want to be able to use it, they just don't give it to him.

This is my point, actually. By doing so, that Carpet of Flying counts towards someone else's wealth by level. But at the end of the day, it benefits the VoP character as much as any of the party members. Especially at higher levels, the rest of the party is going to have a significant portion of their wealth made up of utility items for the whole party. Meanwhile, the VoP character's entire wealth is focused towards his own combat effectiveness. It's a matter of him getting to use a portion of the other characters' magic, but then don't gain any benefit from his. (Other than his combat prowess, obviously.)

*shrug* It would annoy me.

 

[Scion]

Generally I've seen 'party items' count either against everyones wealth levels or effectively no ones. It makes for an odd way to calculate sometimes, but rounding errors are higher levels tend to be pretty high anyway so no big loss

 

[Cbas10]

Well, in my game, Vow of Poverty is not an issue at all. I love it; great role-playing potential. I should add, however, that I do not like the Monk class and do not have it in my games. Once you remove monks from the picture, the real wieght of VoP's restrictions is easily seen. VoP is even one more reason that I dislike Monks in D&D. I had every powergamer at the FLGS jibber-jabbering at the monk-VoP combo. However, once the Monk is taken out of the picture, one is forced to look at it as a major aspect of character concept and a place where sacrifices are certainly made.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The party is currently going through the Bloodstone Trilogy (their just about to go into the mines). In the first session he joind the party and they fought a large battle with some hired Mag mercenaries on their side againt a bandit army and their epic leaders.

Severely OT, James, but have you prepared a conversion (or just notes) for H1-4? I'd love a copy, if you've got one.

 

[James McMurray]

Severely OT, James, but have you prepared a conversion (or just notes) for H1-4? I'd love a copy, if you've got one.

Sorry, no. I'm converting it as I go. Its a pretty big hack job too, as I've changed all sorts of stuff. For one thing, the Grandfather of Assassins is playing a more active role early on, and I replaced him with a Gloom (ELH) Assassin 10.

My goal this week is to convert the Mines portion of H2, since that's where y players have said they're heading next. The link in my sig is a story hour about it, but its now three sessions behind because I just don't have the time to update anymore.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Sorry, no. I'm converting it as I go. Its a pretty big hack job too, as I've changed all sorts of stuff. For one thing, the Grandfather of Assassins is playing a more active role early on, and I replaced him with a Gloom (ELH) Assassin 10.

No problem; figured I'd ask! The GoA is now CR 35? I'm assuming you've got some pretty epic-level PCs in there...

 

[James McMurray]

Assassin is a related class, so its only worth 1/2 CR per level.

The party is currently levels 23 through 25 (there's 5 characters and a cohort). If they can get to him alone and in a situation where they can actually find him, they'll do ok. But so far they've just managed to drive him off a couple of times. One was with the help of a mysteriou suit of silent black full plate that has been following them around, and the second was because the sorcerer managed to grab him with a Bigby's Crushing Hand, so he fled via Shadow Walk rather than hang around and grapple.

They've destroyed his power base in the valley and so will have a bit of a reprieve from him for a little while. They are researching to try to find out his hideout, but that will take at least a ew months of ingame time, and the Mines will hopefully give them a bit more experience and treasure before they find him. They're currently bit under their standard wealth due to a bad run-in with the mated dragons along the way to the Valley.

 

[RisnDevil]

Ummmmm, so you have analyzed the power from a numbers perspective....ie you have looked at what is offered and looked at what you feel it should total and blah blah blah. Have any of you guys actually played a character with VoP? Here's the thing, VoP automatically gives you a character who is min/max. At lower levels, it takes time to build the abilities up with the stuff the rest of the party should/will have. But then, yes, it becomes powerfull at higher levels, but think of a party that each character is min/max, especially in equipment and feats, as essentially that is what you get with VoP. Those other characters, unless you create them at higher levels, are beyond the shadow of a doubt going to have better equipment than he has options....and it doesn't get taken away with one fell choice. Think about that, if the tides turn just right and in a desperate moment the player makes a wrong choice, (which the dm should be putting the player into positions where he has to choose) then every last thing he has earned is gone. Not just in reference to numbers but in actual gameplay the VoP is not overpowering, especially if the party actually works up those levels.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Assassin is a related class, so its only worth 1/2 CR per level.

You mean an associated class? Those are the ones that add +1 CR per level, FYI.

OTOH, you do have 6 characters, so it's a different ballgame. Looks like a fun campaign, judging from the story hour!

 

[James McMurray]

Oops. Oh well. They can handle it. At their level a TPK only costs them 25,000gp plus their current gear (at least until the assassins learn about their cleric friend).