[VTT] Going Back to VTT Instead of Live Play

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't know about VTT's becoming the default mode. I doubt it but if we ever get cheap good quality augmented reality that could become the default mode.
Though it would also need some developments on the mapping side also.

 

[el-remmen]

I play one F2F game that moved to remote for over year and is now back F2F (thank goodness!) and one remote game with players on both coasts and Europe that I don't use a VTT for (we use zoom and point a camera at the game table and I move all the minis - we did this for the now F2F game too). I do hope to join up a West Marches style game that uses VTT soon just to give it a try - that said, I can't imagine my DM style working very well with a VTT - esp. since I like to do custom maps (frequently on the fly) and customize most monsters. My sense is that bc of the way I tend to do things it would increase my prep a great deal and I don't ever want to deal with technical issues.

All that said, remote play is a great additive but I can never see it scratching my D&D itch by itself.

 

[aramis erak]

• I'm the GM, so reading faces doesn't matter to me. Although Discord allows video links for the entire group, so it is available. I turn it off to save bandwidth.
• Still have that. And no fudging, no chasing lost dice, and no delays while someone hunts for the d10 they just had.
• Have that. Roll20 and D&D Beyond allows you to legally share your books.
• Again, I don't need to read gamers.
• Able to afford my own snacks.
• Not sure what you're doing at your table. I gamed with one guy weekly for 19 years and we never had a reason for physical contact.

I also am the GM. I find reading players essential to excellent and amusing play.
Digital dice don't carry the anticipation that physicals do for me. Nor most of my player base.
Roll20 and D&DB require you to (re)buy them in their format to do that.
It's not the affordability; it's the community in communion via the shared meal. The making the effort to bring things others can share in. This is a fundamental part of my gaming experience. Even when each brings their own food, the shared meal is a cultural experience that is largely being lost...
The "small physical by-play? High fives, passing dice, the occasional die being bounced at someone. The occasional elbow. For many of my players, the ability to hug each other upon arrival. Lots of high-empathy physical behaviors that aren't part of the game, but are part of being a group of friends. (I'm about as huggable as a stick, but my players tend to be pretty huggy with each other.)

I don't have enough screen real estate, even with 2 tablets, 2 computers, and a large screen 1080p screen I can share to...

And even online, I prefer to keep my notes on dead tree. As does my daughter, when she GMs. She's also complained about the lacks above... and she is, at least amongst her friends, a hugger.

GMing online (and I do, routinely), I find I have 2 computers going, one tablet (for rulebook searches), one to two dead tree notebooks (one for system cheatsheets, one for taking notes), the physical rulebook, the adventure, reduced size printouts of everyone's characters (snapshotted every few sessions). It's easier for me to flip physical pages than to find the right tabs.

And when I run a system I only have in PDF, I've been known to print the whole thing out...

And for comparison, most of my players' computer game habits are Stardew Valley and Minecraft... technologicaly undemanding... and other such low-hardware-demand titles with interactive online.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Remember that if VTT doesn’t become the default for TTRPGs, then as was mentioned upthread a lot of people who live in smaller towns simply won’t have access to enough local gamers to get any sort of game going. So I think we should hope it becomes the default, if nothing else to ensure the hobby thrives. And even if it doesn’t fit the specific style you’ve developed after years of being lucky enough to have face-to-face options, everyone can adapt. I certainly did, and so did tons of people on the Gauntlet for many years now, and a lot of gamers who jumped into the hobby during the pandemic. Literally everything else we do is increasingly digital and connected. Pearl-clutching or back-in-my-day assertions notwithstanding, why assume TTRPGs will or should be any different?

 

[Marc_C]

If we didn't have VTT my second group, in which I am a player, would simply not exist. VTT allows me to play every week. Something I haven't done since the early 80s.

I used to host a FTF group during the 90s. My wife and I cooked dinner for 6 people for FREE for several years. One guy had the audacity to complain about being served spaghetti. After that we decided to dine at the local delicatessen. The group disbanded not long after. Sometimes I wonder if some of them were there more for the free meal than the actual game... (we were all student or low income earners at the juncture)

 

[Jd Smith1]

I also am the GM. I find reading players essential to excellent and amusing play.
Digital dice don't carry the anticipation that physicals do for me. Nor most of my player base.
Roll20 and D&DB require you to (re)buy them in their format to do that.
It's not the affordability; it's the community in communion via the shared meal. The making the effort to bring things others can share in. This is a fundamental part of my gaming experience. Even when each brings their own food, the shared meal is a cultural experience that is largely being lost...
The "small physical by-play? High fives, passing dice, the occasional die being bounced at someone. The occasional elbow. For many of my players, the ability to hug each other upon arrival. Lots of high-empathy physical behaviors that aren't part of the game, but are part of being a group of friends. (I'm about as huggable as a stick, but my players tend to be pretty huggy with each other.)

I don't have enough screen real estate, even with 2 tablets, 2 computers, and a large screen 1080p screen I can share to...

And even online, I prefer to keep my notes on dead tree. As does my daughter, when she GMs. She's also complained about the lacks above... and she is, at least amongst her friends, a hugger.

GMing online (and I do, routinely), I find I have 2 computers going, one tablet (for rulebook searches), one to two dead tree notebooks (one for system cheatsheets, one for taking notes), the physical rulebook, the adventure, reduced size printouts of everyone's characters (snapshotted every few sessions). It's easier for me to flip physical pages than to find the right tabs.

And when I run a system I only have in PDF, I've been known to print the whole thing out...

And for comparison, most of my players' computer game habits are Stardew Valley and Minecraft... technologicaly undemanding... and other such low-hardware-demand titles with interactive online.

Interesting. I have banned food at the table in F2F games for decades. If we do grab a bite, we stop the game, eat, and get going, but it is very rare. The Army killed any interest I have in communal meals. I don't even like talkative wait staff.
Have had no huggers to date.
Re-buying the books was no great issue for me, and unless it is available through Roll20, I'm not inclined to buy any future book.
As someone who supports the planet, I haven't used paper notes in a decade or more. (JK, I prefer electronic).

Gaming on line. I use a PC (with two screens, one a TV), and an Ipad for non-tactical notes. Tactical maps have the campaign notes on them, and the NPCs are automated, so I don't have to change my focus. When non-tactical I lean back in my chair with my Ipad and concentrate on the gameplay. That is a big draw of online for me: the freedom from data clutter.

Gaming online, all my players are 'geared up', so no problems there.

The key difference is one of expectation: you apparently view gaming as a social encounter, at least in part. I view gaming, F2F or online, as gaming. The people I game online with share the same focus. I also note that a lot of my players are veterans of MMOs, where teamwork is also pure audio interaction.

 

[Marc_C]

The key difference is one of expectation: you apparently view gaming as a social encounter, at least in part. I view gaming, F2F or online, as gaming. The people I game online with share the same focus.

That is a very good point. I also view my RPG sessions as gaming. Not as a social encounter.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Remember that if VTT doesn’t become the default for TTRPGs, then as was mentioned upthread a lot of people who live in smaller towns simply won’t have access to enough local gamers to get any sort of game going. So I think we should hope it becomes the default, if nothing else to ensure the hobby thrives. And even if it doesn’t fit the specific style you’ve developed after years of being lucky enough to have face-to-face options, everyone can adapt. I certainly did, and so did tons of people on the Gauntlet for many years now, and a lot of gamers who jumped into the hobby during the pandemic. Literally everything else we do is increasingly digital and connected. Pearl-clutching or back-in-my-day assertions notwithstanding, why assume TTRPGs will or should be any different?

This is a vital point. I would have quit the hobby this year if it hadn't been for online; I was fed up with the logistics of keeping a group together. One of my online groups is all Europeans, scattered from Latvia to Israel, all unable to locate games in their respective areas. My other group is all scattered through the same time zone, likewise hard-pressed to find a game within commute distance.

 

[schneeland]

Remember that if VTT doesn’t become the default for TTRPGs, then as was mentioned upthread a lot of people who live in smaller towns simply won’t have access to enough local gamers to get any sort of game going. So I think we should hope it becomes the default, if nothing else to ensure the hobby thrives. And even if it doesn’t fit the specific style you’ve developed after years of being lucky enough to have face-to-face options, everyone can adapt.

Even though I enjoy it a lot (as discussed above), I wouldn't expect VTT to become the default mode of gaming. The appeal of playing at a table is definitely there and if you are a teen or twenty-something with enough time at your hand, living in a reasonably large city, you will probably still have access to enough player's that online play is not strictly necessary.
I do hope that online and offline gaming will coexist as equally viable options in the future, though. Among others, it might also help to keep people in the hobby once other responsibilities (job, kids, etc.) ramp up - in the past I have seen a lot of people drop out once they completed their degrees (most resorting to board gaming only).

 

[Jd Smith1]

Even though I enjoy it a lot (as discussed above), I wouldn't expect VTT to become the default mode of gaming. The appeal of playing at a table is definitely there and if you are a teen or twenty-something with enough time at your hand, living in a reasonably large city, you will probably still have access to enough player's that online play is not strictly necessary.
I do hope that online and offline gaming will coexist as equally viable options in the future, though. Among others, it might also help to keep people in the hobby once other responsibilities (job, kids, etc.) ramp up - in the past I have seen a lot of people drop out once they completed their degrees (most resorting to board gaming only).

By recruiting new gamers into VTTs early, you will cut down on the RL attrition that follows leaving school.

That could be the way to grow the consumer base that threads seeking better pay for game designers are calling for.

And with new generations being ever-more imbedded in electronic formats and gaming, it would probably be a lot easier sell.