Wait, so 7/8/9th level spells weren't in OD&D?

[diaglo]

Hmm... what is the difference between this and Rules Cyclopedia D&D? Does the Rules Cyclopedia include 7th-9th level spells?

Frank Mentzer's version of Basic, Expert, Companions, and Masters makes up the RC.

that ain't OD&D.

 

[dcas]

4. RC (late -- I think 1985? could be wrong there) -- Covered character levels 1-36, included spells up to 9th level.

The RC is even later than that as it is contemporaneous with 2nd Edition AD&D (it has the gold angled TSR logo on the cover IIRC) -- my guess is 1990 or so.

 

[T. Foster]

The D&D Rules Cyclopedia was released in 1991 as a compilation of Frank Mentzer's 1983-86 expansion on Tom Moldvay, David Cook, and Steve Marsh's 1981 revision of J. Eric Holmes' 1977-78 introduction to Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson's 1974 OD&D rules. So while the lineage is direct, there's an awful lot that came in-between.

 

[Delta]

So in my next game I'm restricting development to level 12, largely to keep 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells out of the game.

Then I'm reading the Greyhawk article on Wikipedia and it talks about how those spell levels were "expansions" when they put out the original Greyhawk book?

Is this true??

Another "yes" confirmation here. I'll also point out the fairly small number of spells available -- "You've got just 8 1st-level spells for magic-users, 10 2nd-level, then 14, 12, 14, and 12 again. Clerics have just 4 spells on their 2nd & 3rd level lists, 6 spells on the others." (From my blog.)

Somewhat like you, I was hunting for PDFs of the OD&D boxed set, and oddly they're about the only thing in the entire history of D&D not on RPGNow.com in PDF format. So, I recently went and snatched a copy on EBay. It's profoundly different from Rules Cyclopedia D&D. (RC is more like 3E, than it is OD&D, in my mind.)

One thing that works very well in OD&D is what spells are distributed as "the max", i.e., the top-level spells in the game. Examples for wizards top level (6th): Reincarnation, Anti-Magic Shell, Death Spell, Geas, Disintegrate, Control Weather. Examples for clerics top level (5th): Dispel Evil, Raise Dead, Commune, Quest. When people complain about D&D being wacked out at high levels, I think it's partly because of the historical layering effect of the spells on this foundation, sometimes with weaker spells (or less campaign-altering) getting introduced in later, higher spell slots.

 

[DaveyJones]

Another "yes" confirmation here. I'll also point out the fairly small number of spells available -- "You've got just 8 1st-level spells for magic-users, 10 2nd-level, then 14, 12, 14, and 12 again. Clerics have just 4 spells on their 2nd & 3rd level lists, 6 spells on the others." (From my blog.)

actually, that answer is in print. you can research any number of spells. so the "max" is infinite just like the levels. not spell levels but caster levels

 

[RFisher]

I always wonder if trying to explain the differences in a message board post is worthwhile at all, but what the heck...

OD&D + the supplements is essentially a lighter version of oAD&D. Nigh near every option & mechanic in oAD&D has a precursor in oD&D or the supplements. But it's in about half a dozen digest sized booklets instead of three, full-sized hardbacks.

OD&D itself, without the supplements, is very simple. Just three classes, you know. Ability scores, as written, have very little effect on play. Yet, in some ways, it's amazing how much actually is there. As Diaglo will testify, simple doesn't necessarily mean limiting.

By the time of the RC, as much has changed as has stayed the same. Races have been integrated into classes. There are rules for demihuman "to hit" ability to increase past their level limits. There's a (optional) skill system & weapon mastery system. There are explicit unarmed combat systems beyond just an unarmed attack doing a low amount of damage. There are dominion & war rules. In all, it's nearly as "big" as AD&D, though perhaps more streamlined. When adding something to D&D that was similar to something in AD&D, Frank--as I believe he was directed--made an effort to make the D&D implementation different.

Hope that helps.

 

[DaveyJones]

As Diaglo will testify, simple doesn't necessarily mean limiting.

Amen.

Davey "preaching to the choir" Jones

 

[Remathilis]

Ah, RC. How I love thee. One day I shall reverse the Thac0/AC rules and play you once again...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Amen.

Davey "preaching to the choir" Jones

LOL.

 

[S'mon]

For my C&C game I treat 12th level as the equivalent of 20th in 3e D&D, and maximum spell level is 6th, more powerful effects are 'epic rituals'.

For my Moldvay-Cook B/X D&D pbem, max level is 14th (Dwarf 12th, Elf 10th) and max spell levels are M-U 6th and Cleric 5th, as per the RAW.

I'm finding that this helps create a much better vibe for me, with a much more 'swords & sorcery' feel to the settings. No Wishes to put everything right (or wrong), no Shapechange to destroy armies, etc. I'm limiting monster abilities likewise (no Type VI demons use Symbols of Stunning, or even Teleport no Error) so I'll have to watch monster XP awards.