Pathfinder 1E Wait, the katana only does d8?

[Puxido]

I'm half Japanese and am an amateur historian especially of Japan (but not just). I developed the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) with an intent on more authenticity than most previously published feudal Japan settings. We've even included some tables for the quality of metal available for crafting purposes to be published in the upcoming Kaidan GM setting guide. Japan is a volcanic island chain which means Japan due to geology isn't necessarily mineral/metal resource rich.

I see, since you do this for a living I don almost always take your word for it, it was just in this case that it didn't match my previous research on the subject, though you have more credentials than me so I stand by. I have been studying blacksmithing as a hobby lately, and I use my knowledge of metalworking in cases like this. I always felt that the Katana was superior to most two handed swords (I really feel it shouldn't be one handed, not that it cant, just that it's not supposed to be used that way.) do you think d8 fits it? Or should it be d10 with the bastard sword? I admit my knowledge of it is limited, what I know comes from my personal research as well as from a personal friend who does martial arts and swordtraining (I wouldn't say kendo, mainly because kendo is a sport and she feels that the use of martial arts and sword fighting as a sport is distasteful), and my knowledge of blacksmithing, which I admit I'm still a novice.

 

[gamerprinter]

I'm fine with katana doing 1d8, the nodaichi at d10 is the equivalent of a bastard sword among Japanese swords. For some reasons some sword enthusiasts are convinced that katana was somehow superior to all other blades. While I agree it was a remarkable weapon and certainly well made, due to inferior metals and the apples and oranges way a katana is wielded versus a western blade, as well as the fact that the armor worn by opponents of katana wielders wore lacquer, silk chain and scale, as opposed to full metal suits of armor having a sharper blade was more effective to eastern armor versus western armor. Most western swords were not that sharp, so that they could survive a battle against a metal clad warrior. A katana versus full metal armor would chip and dull quickly.

My parents possess a 16th century katana as a family heirloom, as well as several katana and wakizashi blades only (the handles haven't survived). Though my mother's side were physicians during the feudal period of Japan, which were high status commoners and not of the samurai caste, but were allowed to wear a single blade as a mark of their station during the Tokugawa Era.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Tongue in cheek: http://zombieresearchsociety.com/archives/4191

KATANA NOT GOOD ZOMBIE WEAPON

If I had a dollar for every time someone declared a katana to be the ultimate zombie weapon, I’d be rich by now. But what actually is a katana, and how much help will it be in staying alive in an undead world?

Contrary to popular belief, the term katana in Japanese was originally applied to any kind of single-edged curved sword, of any origin. Therefore, an old U.S. Civil War battle sword was just as much a katana as anything you find in the Land of the Rising Sun. For our purposes here, we’ll use the more contemporary definition that a katana is the standard size, slightly curved Japanese sword with a blade length of greater than 60 cm.

In a recent interview, modern Samurai Master, Yoshinori Kouno, pointed out that only katanas made in the traditional Japanese way, Tamahagane, are strong enough to withstand real battle. These swords have a specific blend of high and low carbon not found in store-bought replicas, no matter what their advertised quality. However, the imposter weapons can still be sharpened to a fine blade, making them extremely dangerous to the inexperienced user.

“It takes decades to become battle-ready with a katana. Anyone with less experience is likely to cut their own leg or foot off on a deflection or missed attack. You’re better to hope your fake katana breaks on your first hit. It will spare you a major self-inflicted injury.”

Kouno closed the interview by stating that there are only a handful of people on the planet who could effectively use a katana in battle. For the rest of us it would be nothing more than a recipe for certain death.

Don’t get me wrong. The notion of fighting zombies with a deadly katana is as appealing to me as the next guy, but it is also equally unrealistic. In my research I’ve found that a real Japanese katana is difficult to master, nearly impossible to find and purchase at a reasonable price, and limited in its real-world application.

I liked this explanation: http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/25700-longsword-versus-katana/

Which weighs more: a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?

Without specifying everything the question is meaningless: I could design a test that 90% of the katanas would fail and 90% of european swords would pass---or vice versa.

However there are enormous amounts of hype out there about Japanese swords---like that they were fast light and sharp compared to European blades that were more like crowbars---yet the average weight of a European battle sword for nearly 1000 years is just about the same as the average weight of a Katana and European blades tend to be much thinner in cross section that Katanas---which is the crowbar?

For general battle field use against armoured opponents spring tempered European swords tend to do better than the differentially hardened katanas, (look up the role of Ashi for an example of why) Or if you read up on training for the katana they cover how to straighten it as a traditionally made blade can take a set if your form is not perfect. On the battlefield *nothing* tends toward perfection! You will also note that it started out as Kyuba no michi, meaning “Way of the horse and bow” not the sword.

Katanas make great dueling weapons---1 on 1 with no armour The European Sword makes great battle swords.

There is a lot of mysticism to the Katana too. Did you know that we have more renaissance treatises on how knights fought with european swords than they have in Japan about how Katana were used? Or in another "it's not from around here it must be *special": many smiths have made a big thing about the japanese cutler's hammers not realizing that the same pattern was used in Sheffield England less than 100 years ago and in saw tuning to modern times.

One last warning many people have compared TERRIBLY made "reproductions" of European blades to Japanese blade never realizing that the reproduction was several times heavier that the originals and the cross sections, distal tapers, etc were so far off they should be considered more like anime weapons...(A European battle sword should average around 2.5 pounds with 3# being the upper common range and even great swords generally weigh under 10 pounds. However grossly overweight and over sized "bearing swords" were made in Europe to be displayed as symbols of power and might and these should NOT be lumped in with battle swords just like some of the enormous temple ken of Japan should not be considered battle swords.)

And this:

The problem with the comparison of the katana and the the long sword, is the weapons are taken out of context. The katana developed with a fighting style, and a style of armor. The curved blade, is indeed for cutting, the style of fighting maximizes this (but there are techniches that use trusts, and lunges), wile the armor provides the maximum amount of protection, with the minimum restriction of movement.
The longsword developed with armor, and shield. The strate tapored blade, is designed to part mail links, and exploit chinks in plate armors, wile the armor is intended to provide maximum protection. Let us not forget the shield, again providing a primary defense for the warior.
Each weapon is ideally suited for it's time, place and style of warfare (not to mention status).
Any one care to compare the sword to the spear? ;-)

And finally this:

Having trained with both for a very long time, under different teachers who came from different schools of thought, In the end they remain remarkably similar in principle, however they differ greatly in application.
I can tell you that I personally prefer the utility offered by the western pattern swords. The elongated quilions offer several advantages over the Japanese tsuba, as does the back edge and straight taper. Also, with small exception to some disarming techniques, Japanese schools do not teach techniques like half-swording or "wind and bind," which in historical context makes the longsword superior in its more dynamic application on the battlefield against armored troops. The Katana was a back-up weapon used in duels and indoor scenarios, but never as a primary. As Thom Noblitt has pointed out above: In war, that was a roll filled by the pike and spear.

Katanas do one thing well and with style: cut. But one should never say that the western longsword can't match it's cutting power, because it certainly can and often will if done with a well designed and well maintained blade.
In my circle (and I know many of you might disagree, but this opinion was formed by many individuals with years of experience) the Katana is considered sub par for practical use against anyone other than an opponent who is unarmored and equipped with a lesser weapon, because they lack good defensive options. Katana duels are often "fleshy," or in other words both opponents, Regardless of their mastery or skill, get mortally wounded (and Japanese schools often acknowledge that fact), as were a duel between two men with western swords are often less costly for the "winner" because of a more sound defensive/return capability offered by the long swords design and application.
I do respect the Katana, as I was first introduced to schools that practiced some form of Bushido, but It would not be my first choice for a personal weapon for the reasons I've stated above. However, In truth I would be hesitant to have a long sword fill that roll as well, regardless; though that is a whole new issue in its self.

 

[Dioltach]

My feeling -- totally unsubstantiated by anything like proof -- is that a lot of the mystique surrounding samurai and their weapons stems from the fact that they were using weapons and adhering to principles that appealed to the romantic sensibilities lf many Westerners of the late 19th century. The folding technique was used by the Saxons in thr Dark Ages -- I remember seeing, as a child, a Puffin Book from the 1960s or 1970s that had a picture of how it worked. What made katanas and their like so interesting to Westerners was that they were still in use at a time when Western warfare was dominated by firearms and mass-produced bayonets.

 

[Puxido]

I see, I guess most of that's mostly hype then. Didn't expect "Hype" to be a thing in the blacksmithing community. I still feel its the superior sword, but I know now that's its purely an opinion of taste now. I did have an idea for a homebrew though. Shouldn't a katana use your dex modifier rather than your strength modifier on attack rolls, I see a lot of kendo and sword enthusiasts say the katana relies more on dexterity than strength?

 

[Starfox]

Pathfinder's katana has the "deadly" property, which is pretty misnamed. It could be called "executioner" or something like that:

Deadly: When you use this weapon to deliver a coup de grace, it gains a +4 bonus to damage when calculating the DC of the Fortitude saving throw to see whether the target of the coup de grace dies from the attack. The bonus is not added to the actual damage of the coup de grace attack. Source: Ultimate Combat.

 

[Puxido]

Pathfinder's katana has the "deadly" property, which is pretty misnamed. It could be called "executioner" or something like that:

Deadly: When you use this weapon to deliver a coup de grace, it gains a +4 bonus to damage when calculating the DC of the Fortitude saving throw to see whether the target of the coup de grace dies from the attack. The bonus is not added to the actual damage of the coup de grace attack. Source: Ultimate Combat.

I know, I made a custom weapon :Claymore with the same thing on it, it also had blocking.

 

[Ramaster]

The "Deadly" quality might have been added because of the weapon's role on Seppuku.

I have NO IDEA what the difference between a Katana and a Longsword might be... Some folks out there have fancy credentials, check out what they have to say. What I would argue is this: Paizo gave the Katana those stats for balance reasons... So my suggestion is to use them as-is.

 

[Starfox]

For my homebrew, I gave the katana a bonus against unarmored targets. It was a court sword, after all, and Samurai in actual battle would usually prefer the yari (spera) or naginata (glaive). The katana gained its legendary status after the end of the Japanese civil wars.

 

[gamerprinter]

Well in historical actuality, the yumi long bow was the definitive samurai weapon from the start of the feudal period (1185) up to the Tokugawa Era (1603). It wasn't until the Tokugawa Era when wars were minimized, order was maintained and sword came into preiminence (primarily symbolic). Prior to that time, the katana was a sidearm, what you used if you were unhorsed or ran out of arrows. Although the arquebus arrived around 1550 and saw continuous use (without improvements) up to the end of the Tokugawa Era (1868) it never truly displaced the other traditional samurai weapons.

From Way of the Samurai (PFRPG) is a samurai archetype called yabusame (archer specialist), which focused on the samurai emphasis on range and accuracy, but less concerned with massive volleys of arrows shot per round. Most of its special archery abilities involve standard actions and single shot attacks with the yumi.

Note, the supplement includes 3 other samurai archetypes: kuge (courtier), nitojutsu sensei (a Miyamoto Musashi based 2 weapon warrior), and the tajiya (oni-slaying samurai). It includes a samurai like ranger called the yojimbo, also 2 samurai-like prestige classes: bugyo (government official), mosa (samurai tank). Plus samurai like archetypes for gunslinger, paladin and wizard. Plus rules for creating samurai clans based on the city stat block, with a sample samurai community, clan, NPCs, and map.