Wall of Force versus Anti Magic Ray (from Beholder)

[Kazoo]

I was referring to the AMF from the Beholder not having an effect.

Effects that are allready in place are fair game.

Hey, why not cast Stinking Cloud, then Acid Fog, THEN Wall of force?

That way, the spellcasters can't dispel it because they're hacking.

Actually, I wasn't going to trap a spellcaster. I would probably trap one of the fighters. A spellcaster could just dimension door out. I would use the AMF from the Beholder to prevent the fighters spellcasting allies from freeing him.

 

[Al]

Here's an interesting follow-up, as it's a standard mage defense at high-level.
Hasted mage casts:
1. Wall of Force
2. Antimagic Shell
Now, I've traditionally ruled that because of the AMS, the Wall of Force cannot be disintegrated or passwalled. However, this thread has made me think again. What's the actual answer?

 

[Vanye]

Here's an interesting follow-up, as it's a standard mage defense at high-level.
Hasted mage casts:
1. Wall of Force
2. Antimagic Shell
Now, I've traditionally ruled that because of the AMS, the Wall of Force cannot be disintegrated or passwalled. However, this thread has made me think again. What's the actual answer?

The wall could still be affected, because the AMF (note, it's a field, not a shell) would be on the other side of the wall, not blocking any incoming magic....

 

[Xarlen]

I didn't think you could DD or Teleport through a Wall of Force?

 

[Magus_Jerel]

The Sage answered this in Dragon #296.

You cannot cast a spell that would origionate on the other side of a Wall of Force (Ala Flame Strike) because you have no line of Effect.

Wall of Force destroys a line of Effect, but not a line of Sight (Two different things). Because the Wall of Force is not effected by an AMF, and breaks line of effect, then it doesn't work.

ok - if you intend to quote a sage ruling - you have to quote EXACTLY what he says.

Furthermore, if the sage wrote this - it DIRECTLY contradicts the PHB, which states that line of effect = line of sight.

 

[Xarlen]

ok - if you intend to quote a sage ruling - you have to quote EXACTLY what he says.

Furthermore, if the sage wrote this - it DIRECTLY contradicts the PHB, which states that line of effect = line of sight.

Well, if you're going to be picky about it, fine. From Dragon #296:

Perhaps you are confusing the rule ofr line of effect with the rule for line of sight. If your spell has a target entry, you must have line of sight to your target or be able to touch your target (See Aiming a spell in chapter 10 of the PHB). Ifyour spell has an effect or aera, you need not see the place where you aim the spell, but you have to designate the place where you're aiming somehow (See Aiming a spell). So, if your line of sight is blocked by something that does not also block line of effect (Such as darkness), you can still cast an area or effect spell through the blockage.
A wall of force blocks line of effect, just like any other solid barrier. As noted above, you need line of effect between you and the point of origion of your spell (Or to your spell's target, or to the space in which you create an effect with a spell), see Line of Effect in Chap 10 of PHB.
If the line of effect from the example flame strike spell passes through a wall of force, the spell is blocked. The blocked spell fails and is wasted. The spellcaster knows the spell failed, but doesn't neccessarily know why. A successful spellcraft check (Dc 15) reveals that a line of effect was somehow blocked.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

A wall of force blocks line of effect, just like any other solid barrier.

yes - the wall of force is a solid - but transparent - barrier. This is why it does not work on gaze attacks.

Furthermore, it is one matter to send the likes of a flame strike THROUGH a wall of force. It is quite another to say... summon a monster that would appear on the other side of the barrier.

Flamestrike starts from the general direction of "up" and comes "down" unto a character. If that character is inside a hemispherical wall of force - the spell thus fails to effect anything inside that wall - including the charater. This is what the sage is describing when he says the spell "fails".

 

[Xarlen]

I have to disagree, Magus.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

That's your perrogative - but I don't think you can defend why.

I didn't think you could DD or Teleport through a Wall of Force?

hmmm... so you were arguing for an entrapping spell that awards no save and is escapable? I COULD cast that hemisphere centered on YOU ya know...

Originally posted by Al
Here's an interesting follow-up, as it's a standard mage defense at high-level.
Hasted mage casts:
1. Wall of Force
2. Antimagic Shell
Now, I've traditionally ruled that because of the AMS, the Wall of Force cannot be disintegrated or passwalled. However, this thread has made me think again. What's the actual answer?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer given:

The wall could still be affected, because the AMF (note, it's a field, not a shell) would be on the other side of the wall, not blocking any incoming magic....

Correct. Note - AMF in and of itself is usually an extremely adequate defence vs magic... stopping physical attack is a bit more difficult. Best defense - no be seen.

 

[Xarlen]

On the contrary, I can.

Line of Effect is broken by a Wall of Force. That should be enough to reason, thereby you cannot summon a monster on the other side of it. You cannot choose a flame strike to appear on the Left side, if you cast it from the Right.

You cannot cast a spell into an adjacent room because of two factors: Line of effect, and line of Sight. If I can't see, I have no line of effect. If there is a one foot hole in the wall, then I Can. However, in the case of the Wall of Force, it is Clear, but Solid. Ergo, I cannot cast spells who's area of effect, effect that begins or starts, happens on the oposite side of me.

Otherwise, why couldn't you cast Hemisphered Wall of Force, Then cast a cloud kill that would center Inside the hemisphere, after casting it? Why, because you cannot cast Into it, due to the break in the line of effect.

Of course, I Could be wrong. Caliban? Kreynolds? Could you guys give a ruling?