Wall spells

[Alpha Polaris]

When casting a wall spell (or any spell which allows you to shape the effect), do you need a line of sight to every square of the resulting shape, or just one ? For example, if the caster is inside a room, behind a large pillar (10x10 or more), can she cast a wall somewhere on the other side of the pillar, although she cannot see all of it ? What about casting a wall outside of a house, although you only see what's outside through a (somewhat distant) door ? Lastly, if you'd allow the caster to cast the spell in those conditions at all, would you allow her to place it accurately ? That is, going from a point she cannot see to another one she cannot see either, and exactly matching both ends so as to seal the passage ?

 

[Len]

You need to have line of effect to the whole wall.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect.

So you can't make a wall when you're hiding behind a pillar or inside a room, but you can cast a wall spell into darkness.

As for placement, the caster can specify the location where the effect should appear, whether they can see it or not. If the caster can't see that location, the player should try to ignore out-of-character info. Best if the DM hasn't drawn the unseen area on the battlemat and the player has to guess. Some of the wall spells in particular say that the spell fails if the wall would pass through an object.

 

[Alpha Polaris]

Thank you, this has been bothering me for quite some time now, especially wrt wall of ice, which fizzles if cast over an object.

 

[Felix]

wall of ice, which fizzles if cast over an object.

It does?

 

[frankthedm]

It does?

If a foe is next to the wall of ice, it can be wholely negated with a reflex save.

A wall of ice cannot form in an area occupied by physical objects or creatures. Its surface must be smooth and unbroken when created. Any creature adjacent to the wall when it is created may attempt a Reflex save to disrupt the wall as it is being formed. A successful save indicates that the spell automatically fails.

 

[Felix]

If a foe is next to the wall of ice, it can be wholely negated with a reflex save.

The point of the hemisphere of ice is to trap things under it. He said, "fizzles if cast over an object". Fizzles meaning, "spell fails even before saves". I was asking for clarification from him about what Alpha Polaris meant; not about clarification about what "Save: none or Reflex negates" means. But thanks anyway.

 

[frankthedm]

The point of the hemisphere of ice is to trap things under it. He said, "fizzles if cast over an object". Fizzles meaning, "spell fails even before saves". I was asking for clarification from him about what Alpha Polaris meant; not about clarification about what "Save: none or Reflex negates" means. But thanks anyway.

Sorry, meant "What is even worse if a foe is next to the wall of ice, it can be wholely negated with a reflex save."

I believe Alpha was refering to the text of "Its surface must be smooth and unbroken when created." Meaning if cast so anything is in the area of the wall of ice, it fails rather than form the rest of the wall around it.

 

[backbeat]

Small and Medium creatures won't even get a save if you place the spell appropriately. A 7th lvl caster (lowest for wall of ice) will get a 10 ft radius hemisphere. That means non reach creatures in the center 4 squares get no save. They are just trapped

 

[Dheran]

Unanchored spells (Wall of Ice, Wall of Force) can't be used to actually seal anything. Even a single speck of dust on a smooth floor will make the spell fail if you try to make the wall tight to the floor. Any gaps are enough for someone with a Gaseous Form spell or potion to slip through.

 

[Felix]

Sorry, meant "What is even worse if a foe is next to the wall of ice, it can be wholely negated with a reflex save."

No worries.

But I rather think that Wall of Ice is the best of the Wall spells for combat.

Wall of Fire is a close second; they're both 4th level, but Wall of Ice can entrap individual enemies (Hemisphere) as well as separate enemy formations, and do so for 1min/level. Wall of Fire is better against lots and lots of mooks, but that doesn't happen terribly often in my experience.

Wall of Force is 5th level and lasts a short amount of time. Its immunity is its selling point, but its transparency can be a drawback.

Wall of Iron is 6th level, and best for outside combat uses. The instantaneous duration is its selling point.

Wall of Stone is 5th level, and also used best outside combat. Also instantaneous, this and Stone Shape can make a nice little castle given some time.

Wall of Thorns is 5th level, exclusive to Druids and Plant clerics, and isn't bad for slowing enemies down; the duration and difficulty to remove are its selling points.

Wind Wall is nice versus archers, but does squat for battlefield control.

Even a single speck of dust on a smooth floor will make the spell fail if you try to make the wall tight to the floor.

Pedantry.

Except:

A vertical wall need only be anchored on the floor, while a horizontal or slanting wall must be anchored on two opposite sides.

You can anchor the ice to the floor and to walls. I'd say this is pretty good precedent for being able to anchor the ice to the ceiling as well. You'd get what Iceman did in X-Men2 to separate Stryker from Wolverine.

Or, if you want to use your ruling, then anytime you cast a Wall of Ice the spell fizzles because of the dust particle floating in the air where you cast it. Hmmm.

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Speaking of X2, would Wall of Ice be able to create the same effect? Would a 10th level caster be able to cast Wall of Ice in a 10x10 corridor, and with the 10 sections of 10-inch thick 10x10 ice, create a 100-inch (8ft, 4in) thick 10x10 block? The relevant text:

A sheet of strong, hard ice appears. The wall is 1 inch thick per caster level. It covers up to a 10-foot-square area per caster level (so a 10th-level wizard can create a wall of ice 100 feet long and 10 feet high, a wall 50 feet long and 20 feet high, or some other combination of length and height that does not exceed 1,000 square feet).​

The points against it are:

The spell descriptor does not say Shapeable, (S)
The spell mentions combinations of length and height, but not width.
The spell prescribes the thickness of the wall.​

So, would you allow Wall of Ice to create a block of ice?