Wand of Wraithstrike Market Crashes

[Moon-Lancer]

in post #26, i was arguing from the point of normal d&d, not d&d mini. Now this would be a strange place for d&d mini to be considering they alwayse had swift actions (am i wrong?) I dont know if any minies have wands or similar umd skills with swift action spells,, but I can see how sc could mess up some things if this was the case.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I guess I just don't understand then. Why do people constantly argue that the FAQ and errata are not "official" when they are clearly written down in a WotC publication?

"Official" is completely irrelevant. As an analogy, do you agree with this statement: Bud Light is the official beer of the Superbowl, so therefore you have to drink Bud Light during the Superbowl. It gets slightly more complicated than that, but that's one response. I won't discuss it further because it's still a touchy subject right now and one person may have been banned because of his staunch defense of the officialness.

 

[Pinotage]

Well, it was under the header of "Swift and Immediate Actions" and the sub-header of "Magic Items", but yes, a dedicated rules lawyer can take the statement out of context and argue that spell completion and spell trigger items of spells with a casting time of longer than one standard action can be activated with a standard action.

Hopefully, the DM he tries it on will be experienced and confident enough to tell him no. I do not recommend whacking the rules laywer over the head with the Spell Compendium. It's quite a thick book and might cause some injury.

Yip. I agree that the books (Mini-HB and SC) state that Swift Actions should be standard actions in scrolls, but that's contrary to the core, which is why I wished they'd stated it better so that there wouldn't be any debate left. Me, I'll just use them as standard actions. Some may call that a house rule, but that doesn't bother me.

Pinotage

 

[Votan]

Yip. I agree that the books (Mini-HB and SC) state that Swift Actions should be standard actions in scrolls, but that's contrary to the core, which is why I wished they'd stated it better so that there wouldn't be any debate left. Me, I'll just use them as standard actions. Some may call that a house rule, but that doesn't bother me.

Pinotage

My understanding is that there are no swift actions in core but only free actions (as opposed to standard, full round and move actions). So it's not surprising that the rules for how to use spells with these casting times are in non-core supplements along with these spells that use them.

If you use core only this never comes up as core doesn't have swift action spells to palce on scrolls . . .

 

[Sejs]

Okay, I'm behind the times here.


What the heck is Wraithstrike?

Just from its name it makes it sound like a magical version of the psionic Deep Impact feat.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Yip. I agree that the books (Mini-HB and SC) state that Swift Actions should be standard actions in scrolls, but that's contrary to the core

Not covered by and contrary to core are two completely different things. As has been mentioned, Swift actions themselves aren't covered by the DMG because they didn't exist until Mini's Handbook, so obviously, any statements referring to these actions aren't covered either.

Pin, how do you think the item activation statement should have been written so it better addresses the new concept of Swift and Immediate actions? (I gave what I thought should be the correction in an earlier post.)

 

[shilsen]

Okay, I'm behind the times here.


What the heck is Wraithstrike?

Just from its name it makes it sound like a magical version of the psionic Deep Impact feat.

It's a spell from the Complete Adventurer book that turns your melee attacks for 1 rd into touch attacks. Casting time is a swift action.

 

[Patlin]

As has been mentioned, Swift actions themselves aren't covered by the DMG because they didn't exist until Mini's Handbook, so obviously, any statements referring to these actions aren't covered either.

Well, someone might have mentioned how a wand of feather fall works in the DMG... but no one did.

Personally, I really like the expansion and clarification of the rules we get with the swift and immediate actions.

 

[Pinotage]

Not covered by and contrary to core are two completely different things. As has been mentioned, Swift actions themselves aren't covered by the DMG because they didn't exist until Mini's Handbook, so obviously, any statements referring to these actions aren't covered either.

Pin, how do you think the item activation statement should have been written so it better addresses the new concept of Swift and Immediate actions? (I gave what I thought should be the correction in an earlier post.)

The problem with the statement as written is that it's a blanket statement. It says all spells from scrolls, wands, etc. should be a standard action to activate. That's obviously not true for scrolls according to the core rules, since if they have longer casting times, it takes longer to activate them. So, yes, the rule is contrary to the core for normal spells. If they'd simply stated in a separate sentence that activating swift spells from spell completion or spell trigger items was a standard action I would've been happier. As it is, it's an all-enveloping statement that's obviously not all true given the core rules for normal spells on scrolls.

I think it's clear the intent is swift spells should have standard action activation, but what about swift action scrolls? The DMG says they should take a swift action to activate, but this says standard action. Hence the contridiction. Sure, Swift spells weren't in the core rules, but that doesn't mean everything written about them should contradict the basic rules for scrolls in the DMG.

Pinotage

 

[Shard O'Glase]

am I the only person then who thinks this is a really bad rule then. I'm not going to argue the balance of individual spells, except in the hypothetical. If a spell is balanced for being levels 1-x, and it is a swift action, quickened whatever, your paying the money and xp for a spell of that level, and you don't gain the benefit of swift or quicken you just got screwed. Its not a good rule its a bad rule.

If the spell isn't balanced as a wand it because of it being a swift action, then it isn't balanced as a spell either. That's not a problem with swift action and wands, that's a problem with an individual spell.