Wandering Monsters: Orcs and Gnolls
- Thread starter GX.Sigma
- Start date
The text to Dragon 127 describes the cover thus:
The last three survivors of an orcish army, their standard still aloft, challenge their elven opponents to one last fight.
(And a FYI mention to [MENTION=56051]Raith5[/MENTION], [MENTION=19265]Connorsrpg[/MENTION] and [MENTION=184]Agamon[/MENTION].)
In 4e, I think that to fit with the core cosmology they would have to be retconned into hobgoblins, but that is just one possible take on orcs and goblins.
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
I always thought the racial gods were interesting trivia, at the least. However, I do have to say that in my own campaign world, the other humanoid races don't have their own pantheons, though they tend to view particular gods slightly differently than other races (for example, Fir [pronounced Feor] the Smith is seen as a dwarf by dwarves, as a gnome by gnomes and as a bald giant of a man by humans).
And just to throw more gas on the subject, these are the entries for Orc and for my own RPG:
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ORCS
Physical Traits
Orcs are one of the most powerful of the goblinoids, being brutish and troublesome humanoids. Orcs vastly vary in frame, but generally stand between 5’ 10” to 6’ 6” tall and weigh anywhere from 180-350 lbs.
Most orcs have an ape-like stance, with piggish faces and claw-like hands. Their skins can range across many colors, from green, yellow, purple, black and reds. They generally have yellow or black eyes, though practically any color is possible. Often, as their anger grows, an orcs eyes become clouded, changing toward black.
Challenges
Orcs thrive on conflict and brawling. They are brave and brash, fighting with a wild ferocity. Though capable of working together, most orcs fight for personal satisfaction or glory.
Orcs are well-known for their inclination to raid and commit banditry. Orc tribes have been known to sometimes bind together for the sole purpose to raid other civilizations, usually only to disband into anarchy over the division of loot.
Many orcs resign themselves to mercenary services to escape their low status among their own tribe.
Culture
Orcs tend to live in tribes, ruled by the strongest of their kind. Bullying is the general path to power among orcs and many daily rituals are actually a sort of torture that the more powerful orcs inflict upon their lessers.
Orcs generally have no written rules for society, ruling by whim. Few orcs have a code of honor or other code of ethics they adhere to and freely partake or ignore in their lusts as they please.
Ecology
Orcs prefer areas of difficult wilderness to dwell in. They can organize into communities, but tend to befoul their surroundings with filth and disarray.
Orcs on Amberos
Orcs were originally warriors created by the Ziga, the goddess of corruption, approached the orcs first in her bid to destroy the elves. However, the orcs came to fear Ziga and betrayed her. She in turned cursed them, reducing them to bestial warriors and raiders.
Orcs can be found in the many dark and foul places of Amberos. There are usually large numbers in the Dark Valley and the Twilight Mountains of Simera.
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HYAENID (close enough to gnolls)
Physical Traits
Hyaenids are slightly hunched, hyena-like humanoids known for their feral savagery. They usually stand 6’ 6” to 7’ tall and weigh 160-220 lbs. They have a heavy musculature structure, pug-nosed dog faces on unusually long necks and long, double-jointed arms. Their back legs are like that of a powerful dog, allowing them to move at a rapid pace when they drop to all fours. There are covered with a bristly coat of spotted black and yellow fur. Many hyaenids have a mane along their back that is often groomed or decorated to enhance their feral visage. Hyaenids generally have yellow eyes, though olive or red eyes occasionally show up in individuals.
Challenges
Hyaenids have an insatiable taste for blood and violence. It is not uncommon for them to let blood dry and remain on their fur for weeks at a time. They are savage in battle, sometimes stopping to feed on fallen foes in the middle of a melee.
Hyaenids rarely peaceably trade with other races, and prefer to take any goods they need by force. They can, however, sometimes be coerced into mercenary work for the promise of fresh victims and slaughter. Any such employer has to be careful however, for they will fall on any leader who shows weakness or mercy to his enemies.
Culture
Hyaenids generally travel in war bands, moving from place to place hunting individuals for sport or a feast of flesh. A hyaenid pack is usually led by the dominant female in the pack, who surrounds herself with males willing to follow her every whim. Other females are often driven out of the pack upon reaching mating age, usually at about 13 years of age. In some cases, a singular male or two will depart the pack with the new female, but if too many males threaten to leave at once, the former matriarch may attempt to destroy the other female to keep from losing her followers.
Ecology
Hyaenids tend to be nomadic, and favor warm or the borderlands of arid environments. There are some breeds that have adapted to cold climates, but they tend to hunt in smaller packs, if not as lone individuals.
Hyaenids on Amberos
Hyaenids infest the rocky badlands of Misake and the Misake Barbarians. They are rarer in other realms on Amberos, but can be found as far west as the Farrenlands and even into the vast wastes of Randu in the east.
In a strange twist, hyaenids give birth to hyenas. Hyenas generally remain with their hyaenid packs until old enough to hunt for themselves, then they are driven out until they are old enough to molt into hyaenid form at age 5.
And just to throw more gas on the subject, these are the entries for Orc and for my own RPG:
--------------------------------------------
ORCS
Physical Traits
Orcs are one of the most powerful of the goblinoids, being brutish and troublesome humanoids. Orcs vastly vary in frame, but generally stand between 5’ 10” to 6’ 6” tall and weigh anywhere from 180-350 lbs.
Most orcs have an ape-like stance, with piggish faces and claw-like hands. Their skins can range across many colors, from green, yellow, purple, black and reds. They generally have yellow or black eyes, though practically any color is possible. Often, as their anger grows, an orcs eyes become clouded, changing toward black.
Challenges
Orcs thrive on conflict and brawling. They are brave and brash, fighting with a wild ferocity. Though capable of working together, most orcs fight for personal satisfaction or glory.
Orcs are well-known for their inclination to raid and commit banditry. Orc tribes have been known to sometimes bind together for the sole purpose to raid other civilizations, usually only to disband into anarchy over the division of loot.
Many orcs resign themselves to mercenary services to escape their low status among their own tribe.
Culture
Orcs tend to live in tribes, ruled by the strongest of their kind. Bullying is the general path to power among orcs and many daily rituals are actually a sort of torture that the more powerful orcs inflict upon their lessers.
Orcs generally have no written rules for society, ruling by whim. Few orcs have a code of honor or other code of ethics they adhere to and freely partake or ignore in their lusts as they please.
Ecology
Orcs prefer areas of difficult wilderness to dwell in. They can organize into communities, but tend to befoul their surroundings with filth and disarray.
Orcs on Amberos
Orcs were originally warriors created by the Ziga, the goddess of corruption, approached the orcs first in her bid to destroy the elves. However, the orcs came to fear Ziga and betrayed her. She in turned cursed them, reducing them to bestial warriors and raiders.
Orcs can be found in the many dark and foul places of Amberos. There are usually large numbers in the Dark Valley and the Twilight Mountains of Simera.
------------------------------------------------------
HYAENID (close enough to gnolls)
Physical Traits
Hyaenids are slightly hunched, hyena-like humanoids known for their feral savagery. They usually stand 6’ 6” to 7’ tall and weigh 160-220 lbs. They have a heavy musculature structure, pug-nosed dog faces on unusually long necks and long, double-jointed arms. Their back legs are like that of a powerful dog, allowing them to move at a rapid pace when they drop to all fours. There are covered with a bristly coat of spotted black and yellow fur. Many hyaenids have a mane along their back that is often groomed or decorated to enhance their feral visage. Hyaenids generally have yellow eyes, though olive or red eyes occasionally show up in individuals.
Challenges
Hyaenids have an insatiable taste for blood and violence. It is not uncommon for them to let blood dry and remain on their fur for weeks at a time. They are savage in battle, sometimes stopping to feed on fallen foes in the middle of a melee.
Hyaenids rarely peaceably trade with other races, and prefer to take any goods they need by force. They can, however, sometimes be coerced into mercenary work for the promise of fresh victims and slaughter. Any such employer has to be careful however, for they will fall on any leader who shows weakness or mercy to his enemies.
Culture
Hyaenids generally travel in war bands, moving from place to place hunting individuals for sport or a feast of flesh. A hyaenid pack is usually led by the dominant female in the pack, who surrounds herself with males willing to follow her every whim. Other females are often driven out of the pack upon reaching mating age, usually at about 13 years of age. In some cases, a singular male or two will depart the pack with the new female, but if too many males threaten to leave at once, the former matriarch may attempt to destroy the other female to keep from losing her followers.
Ecology
Hyaenids tend to be nomadic, and favor warm or the borderlands of arid environments. There are some breeds that have adapted to cold climates, but they tend to hunt in smaller packs, if not as lone individuals.
Hyaenids on Amberos
Hyaenids infest the rocky badlands of Misake and the Misake Barbarians. They are rarer in other realms on Amberos, but can be found as far west as the Farrenlands and even into the vast wastes of Randu in the east.
In a strange twist, hyaenids give birth to hyenas. Hyenas generally remain with their hyaenid packs until old enough to hunt for themselves, then they are driven out until they are old enough to molt into hyaenid form at age 5.
That's what I thought.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Here's my take on these races, though not exactly what I use at the table (which would be foolish to share openly, like a password)
Orcs
Orcs are a young race of currently existent older races intermixed, one of which includes humanity.
They are a chaotic race in their alignment and therefore behavior and culture. (Later made into Lawful Evil)
They value strength, power, and control, Might makes right.
"Being bullies they will always intimidate and dominate the weaker" (MM)
Orcs are stronger than humans, but quite less intelligent and charismatic. However they are not dumb (a.k.a. unwise). They are hard to fool regarding what they know,
Orcs live shorter lives than humans, normally reaching middle age by 25, but they gestate and mature faster as well.
Orc culture includes shamans up to 5th level of proficiency, and witchdoctors to 4th.
Orcs are fiercely competitive. This even even individually against other orcs and tribe against tribe. It is 75% likely they will fight each other unless a strong leader with the power to control the individuals or groups unites them.
Orcs prefer living in dim locations lit only by fire. They hate sunlight and do not venture out into daylight unless forced to by a leader (who is not an orc)
In bright light Orcs take a penalty to difficult, fine coordinated actions, like combat attacks.
Orcs can see in the dark (darkvision) and attempt to use this to their advantage.
"For every 30 orcs encountered there will be a leader and 3 assistants" (MM) Think of this as a war party.
"If 150+ orcs are encountered, there will be a subchief and 3d6 elite guards" Think of this as an arm of the tribe on the move.
An entire tribe consists of multiple arms and one chief with guards like a subchief.
Orc culture promotes slavery and slaves are almost always encountered (treat as treasure) in any orc tribes lair. Slaves are used for work, food, and entertainment (like torture).
Orcs hate Elves above all other living things (which they hate too). They will attack elves on sight, all with a preference to fight the elves before any others, and will seek to kill elves immediately never taking them prisoner.
"Orc lairs are underground 75% of the time, in an above ground village 25% of the time" (MM)
Orcs do not build above ground homes. They either search for caves to dig tunnels in for shelter or displace existing populations and take their fortifications until they are useless from lack of upkeep, Long lasting outdoor fortifications are supplemented with earthworks like ditches.
Each orc clan has a unique name and carries a standard around with their chief (this standard usually is magical or has a divine spell in effect upon it "Blessing" members nearby)
Orcs culture is accomplished in mining and tunneling and adult orcs have a few abilities similar to dwarves regarding noticing underground constructions.
The majority of orcs speak Goblin, Hobgoblin, Ogre, as well as Orc and their alignment language.
(MM) "Description: Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration - brown or brownish green with a bluish sheen - highlights their pinkish snouts and ears. Their bristly hair is dark brown or black, sometimes with tan patches. Even their armor tends to be unattractive - dirty and often a bit rusty. Orcs favor unpleasant colors in general. Their garments are in tribal colors, as are shield devices or trim. Typical colors are blood red, rust red, mustard yellow, yellow green, moss green, greenish purple, and blackish brown. They live for 40 years."
Orcs
Orcs are a young race of currently existent older races intermixed, one of which includes humanity.
They are a chaotic race in their alignment and therefore behavior and culture. (Later made into Lawful Evil)
They value strength, power, and control, Might makes right.
"Being bullies they will always intimidate and dominate the weaker" (MM)
Orcs are stronger than humans, but quite less intelligent and charismatic. However they are not dumb (a.k.a. unwise). They are hard to fool regarding what they know,
Orcs live shorter lives than humans, normally reaching middle age by 25, but they gestate and mature faster as well.
Orc culture includes shamans up to 5th level of proficiency, and witchdoctors to 4th.
Orcs are fiercely competitive. This even even individually against other orcs and tribe against tribe. It is 75% likely they will fight each other unless a strong leader with the power to control the individuals or groups unites them.
Orcs prefer living in dim locations lit only by fire. They hate sunlight and do not venture out into daylight unless forced to by a leader (who is not an orc)
In bright light Orcs take a penalty to difficult, fine coordinated actions, like combat attacks.
Orcs can see in the dark (darkvision) and attempt to use this to their advantage.
"For every 30 orcs encountered there will be a leader and 3 assistants" (MM) Think of this as a war party.
"If 150+ orcs are encountered, there will be a subchief and 3d6 elite guards" Think of this as an arm of the tribe on the move.
An entire tribe consists of multiple arms and one chief with guards like a subchief.
Orc culture promotes slavery and slaves are almost always encountered (treat as treasure) in any orc tribes lair. Slaves are used for work, food, and entertainment (like torture).
Orcs hate Elves above all other living things (which they hate too). They will attack elves on sight, all with a preference to fight the elves before any others, and will seek to kill elves immediately never taking them prisoner.
"Orc lairs are underground 75% of the time, in an above ground village 25% of the time" (MM)
Orcs do not build above ground homes. They either search for caves to dig tunnels in for shelter or displace existing populations and take their fortifications until they are useless from lack of upkeep, Long lasting outdoor fortifications are supplemented with earthworks like ditches.
Each orc clan has a unique name and carries a standard around with their chief (this standard usually is magical or has a divine spell in effect upon it "Blessing" members nearby)
Orcs culture is accomplished in mining and tunneling and adult orcs have a few abilities similar to dwarves regarding noticing underground constructions.
The majority of orcs speak Goblin, Hobgoblin, Ogre, as well as Orc and their alignment language.
(MM) "Description: Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration - brown or brownish green with a bluish sheen - highlights their pinkish snouts and ears. Their bristly hair is dark brown or black, sometimes with tan patches. Even their armor tends to be unattractive - dirty and often a bit rusty. Orcs favor unpleasant colors in general. Their garments are in tribal colors, as are shield devices or trim. Typical colors are blood red, rust red, mustard yellow, yellow green, moss green, greenish purple, and blackish brown. They live for 40 years."
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Looking at the Gnolls over and over in the MM and in the article they simply are not interesting.
The 1e MM is making them far too much like orcs. I wouldn't go with them as an underground race at all. Plus, Gnolls have long been unreliable mercenaries selling out to the highest bidder. On the other hand they are more dangerous warriors than orcs or goblins individually and on the pack scale, being natural pack animals and scavengers (of everything they own). They don't coordinate larger than packs, so they aren't really any gnoll armies, but regiments hired by other armies are very common to say the least. Overall, I think the MM got it wrong on this one.
Wizards was pretty insightful in some things like females as pack leaders (actually as shamans). Gnoll females are warriors too. I guess it comes down to the differences one wants in the humanoid races. They still feel far too behaviorally similar to orcs and the as yet detailed goblinkin. Gnolls are probably the closest to Neutral of the bunch may be 50/50 in their tribal makeup in terms of alignment.
Fighting gnolls straight up is and should just be a major PITA. They are an entire culture that studies pack tactics and everyone of them is on average bigger than your biggest (PC race). If you have the money, pay them. If you can afford them for more, than hire them. But don't trust them at they will turncoat at the first hint of scent of more pay and take all of what you "gave them" and they learned about you to the new high bidder.
EDIT: I just thought of something else.
You want to describe all your monsters along the lines of what is interesting according to class, at least to start. What kind of warriors are they? What kind of magic do they use? What gods, rituals, and practices do they revere? Which ones even abide a first offense of thieving? Or is it they are a culture of thieves upon other races?
Combat maneuvers are first and foremost about Group Tactics, not Bruce Lee individuals showing off. The gnolls are highly proficient in pack tactics in head on (and other) warfare, but they are poor at mass combat unlike orcs and goblins. However, they are highly skilled at the small team, skirmish-level combat most PCs & Players are learning through play, so they are very difficult foes to any and all hack & slashers. Anyways, when thinking of races and racial combat powers, please take into account (first if possible) that these came about as pack or army tactics and not individual maneuvers. It's about how they work together than defines them as a categorical, a race. Individually they get to be unique.
The 1e MM is making them far too much like orcs. I wouldn't go with them as an underground race at all. Plus, Gnolls have long been unreliable mercenaries selling out to the highest bidder. On the other hand they are more dangerous warriors than orcs or goblins individually and on the pack scale, being natural pack animals and scavengers (of everything they own). They don't coordinate larger than packs, so they aren't really any gnoll armies, but regiments hired by other armies are very common to say the least. Overall, I think the MM got it wrong on this one.
Wizards was pretty insightful in some things like females as pack leaders (actually as shamans). Gnoll females are warriors too. I guess it comes down to the differences one wants in the humanoid races. They still feel far too behaviorally similar to orcs and the as yet detailed goblinkin. Gnolls are probably the closest to Neutral of the bunch may be 50/50 in their tribal makeup in terms of alignment.
Fighting gnolls straight up is and should just be a major PITA. They are an entire culture that studies pack tactics and everyone of them is on average bigger than your biggest (PC race). If you have the money, pay them. If you can afford them for more, than hire them. But don't trust them at they will turncoat at the first hint of scent of more pay and take all of what you "gave them" and they learned about you to the new high bidder.
EDIT: I just thought of something else.
You want to describe all your monsters along the lines of what is interesting according to class, at least to start. What kind of warriors are they? What kind of magic do they use? What gods, rituals, and practices do they revere? Which ones even abide a first offense of thieving? Or is it they are a culture of thieves upon other races?
Combat maneuvers are first and foremost about Group Tactics, not Bruce Lee individuals showing off. The gnolls are highly proficient in pack tactics in head on (and other) warfare, but they are poor at mass combat unlike orcs and goblins. However, they are highly skilled at the small team, skirmish-level combat most PCs & Players are learning through play, so they are very difficult foes to any and all hack & slashers. Anyways, when thinking of races and racial combat powers, please take into account (first if possible) that these came about as pack or army tactics and not individual maneuvers. It's about how they work together than defines them as a categorical, a race. Individually they get to be unique.
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I had never really paid much attention to gnolls until 4e, which has a bunch of interesting gnolls across the first 3 MMs.
And I haven't used orcs at all in my 4e campaign, which is unusual for me.
In my old Greyhawk campaign I used orcs as the basic humanoid enemies (swallowing up goblins and hobgoblins): Iuz, the Horned Society, the Pomarj, etc. I liked that they had some history, some place in the world, and a mythological and sociological rationale (from Roger Moore's old "point of view" article).
In 4e, orcs seem less interesting to me, but gnolls have been given the cool history instead: it was gnolls who killed the last king of Nerath. And Yeenoghu has been beefed up in mythological heft compared to AD&D. Adding to that that I was using two modules with gnolls mentioned in them - Night's Dark Terror, and Thunderspire Labyrinth. So it was natural to combine the cool gnoll statblocks with this cool gnoll myth and history. In Thunderspire Labyrinth I had gnolls using rot grubs as a torture/execution device (an idea from the 4e MM3).
Gnolls are, basically, the ravagers of civilisation: Yeenoghu is the Beast of Butchery, the Ruler of Ruin.
Steely_Dan
First Post
I really dig the take on gnolls, but the orcs fell a bit short for me, a bit too savage for my taste of orc; I want them slightly more organised, not on Hobgoblin level, but not apes with weapons, and more of the fighting for Gruumsh against goblins and Maglubiyet action, and the hatred of elves.
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