Wandering Monsters: Orcs and Gnolls

[Neonchameleon]

But mostly, I like to look at what makes orcs (or whatever) in D&D at their root interesting gameplay elements, and to take it in a direction that emphasizes that, in my games. I'm not so interested in expies of other famous critters as I am in developing a thing that works in my games to drive the excitement of that particular environment.

That's what I was doing too - and creating something that lead to that.

But I think the reason I'm particularly not in favour of going for iconic D&D orcs is that both WoW and GW orcs are cool. Iconic D&D orcs on the other hand are ridiculous, and not in a good way.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Iconic D&D orcs on the other hand are ridiculous, and not in a good way.

Not really, but that's your thing; I tend to like orcs as a Middle-Earth thing.

 

[Klaus]

D&D orcs? Well, there are these:

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Not really, but that's your thing; I tend to like orcs as a Middle-Earth thing.

Yes.

I like to see more Tolkien influence in my orcs and less WOW/Warhammer.

 

[Klaus]

Yes.

I like to see more Tolkien influence in my orcs and less WOW/Warhammer.

But remember how Tolkien uses the words "orc" and "goblin" interchangeably, and how the Uruk-Hai were created by Saruman by mixing in some "goblin-men"? I'd say that the D&D equivalent of Tolkien's orcs are D&D's goblinoids.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes.

I like to see more Tolkien influence in my orcs and less WOW/Warhammer.

Disagree. Tolkien orcs are confusing. Green-skinned, "noble savage" orcs are pretty mainstream (well, nerd mainstream) by this point.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's what I was doing too - and creating something that lead to that.

For my purposes, your orcs lack an interesting hook (there's no particular reason for me to use them over some other monster) and rely too much on backstory (there's not much I can use at the table tonight).

But I think the reason I'm particularly not in favour of going for iconic D&D orcs is that both WoW and GW orcs are cool. Iconic D&D orcs on the other hand are ridiculous, and not in a good way.

You're confusing "iconic" with "old."

But I don't think either word hits what I'm going for. I'm looking at what makes them interesting gameplay elements. Why are they fun to include in plots and stories and encounters? In what ways are they different from other creatures? What makes an orc special in D&D? Why would I want to use one?

For me, Warhammer orcs are slapstick cartoony and WoW orcs are comic book cartoony and neither feel really appeals to me. I really don't need "LOL Spelling errorz and hyperviolence" and I don't really need "Noble Savage guys." They work fine for their respective environments, but my D&D isn't much like Warhammer and isn't much like Azeroth (and isn't much like LotR, either).

But antagonists who have an implacable hatred for the PC's, simply for what they are...yeah, that I can use. That's good conflict juice, which makes for good storylines and good scenes and good fights and good gameplay. What happens when the orc hoard gathers outside of town and the peaceful nobles try to seek a compromise? (Probably what happens at the beginning of the new Battlestar Gallactica). What can the PC's do to overcome them? (Perhaps turn the orcs against each other? Imply there's greater reward in the chief's tent than in the battle-scarred cities?) How do the PC's have to fight them? (Defensively, probably, relying on terrain and protection to survive the onslaught, and attacking back after they're spent...) What happens to an NPC or PC who comes from such a background? (Have they rejected their culture's hatred entirely, or does it simmer under the surface, always threatening to break through?)

That sounds like awesome good times to me. I don't care what their heads look like or what their alignment was back in 2e.

 

[Steely_Dan]

I'm pleased they are bringing back the racial gods (Hruggek, Maglubiyet, Nomog-Thingy etc).

Not too keen on the one-god-fits-all deal.

I dig my Vaprak, Garl, Kurtulmak etc.

 

[Jack99]

Just a quick question - Have we seen any information indicating that these reports are what we will be getting in the monster manual, or if it is just an outline that is to be used internally??

None at all.

 

[Klaus]

I'm pleased they are bringing back the racial gods (Hruggek, Maglubiyet, Nomog-Thingy etc).

Not too keen on the one-god-fits-all deal.

I dig my Vaprak, Garl, Kurtulmak etc.

I don't particularly like "racial" gods. I prefer the single-pantheon approach. If you use the Norse pantheon, dwarves worship Thor, elves favor Frey and Freya, etc. In a Greek-influenced setting, dwarves go for Hephaestus, elves favor Artemis and Apollo and halflings gravotate towards Demeter.

And there's a long history of not having racial deities. On Oerth, elves originally revered Ehlonna (goddess of the woodlands), dwarves favor Ulaa (goddess of mountains) and halflings are followers of Beory (the Oerth Mother). On Krynn, it was based on alignment.