Wandering Monsters: Orcs and Gnolls

Eww, no. Those aren't orcs.

There are precisely three IPs that have a massive influence on what a fantasy orc is seen to be - and D&D isn't one of them. Also of the two biggest, one was only just getting started in 1989 and the other didn't exist at all. In all three cases they are integral to the IP, and I believe all three IPs to be signficantly bigger than D&D.

In reverse order they are:

3: Tolkein. Orcs are the surly race of slave warriors used by evil wizards, and appear in overwhelming numbers.
2: Waaaaagghhhhhhh! Orcs reproduce by spores and Fight. All. The. Time.
1: For The Horde! Started out as a slight rip-off of Games Workshop in #2 , but is now its own thing.

And these orcs aren't really any of the above. D&D doesn't have a lock on many monsters this side of Illithids and Beholders, and in the case of orcs it barely even has a grip on them.
 

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First, marry me :P

Hahaha, I'm a "fee love" kind of guy when it comes to gaming goodness. ;)

Second, that was great. I have a few quibbles about orcs and gnolls but nothing significant. You should be writing the article, as this made a lot more sense than the WotC version.

Third, STOLEN. I'm SO using these interpretations, if not these outright descriptions for my game. I'll incorporate those quibbles and be golden.

Fourth, "for the LULZ" slays me.

Awesome! Glad you liked 'em! One of the weird things about my particular talent set is that I can grok and describe psychological motivations and roles pretty well. Applies to fictional stuff pretty well since I can make it up. ;)

Fifth, please keep this up for all the monster articles, show us what a better version looks like.

Sixth, care to take a crack at other races BEFORE the article gets there so I can similarly steal those for my game?

I think the WotC versions are "fine," which is probably smart for them. The less generic they go, the more folks who have differing opinions have difficulty disentangling WotC's particular version from theirs, so stating the minimum of what a D&D-brand X is like probably works fine.

I'll probably do this for the rest of the monster articles -- I DO really like getting into monsters' minds! Maybe I'll whip up a little flavor bestiary or something...hmm...
 

I think I can do better than [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION];



It is commonly said that an orc was born with an axe in his hand and a desire to fight. This is a slight exaggeration. But what is certainly true is that orcs are shaped by their biology and upbringing and most of them do see the world as a challenge to be conquered. And every adult orc is a survivor against brutal odds.

Orcs, almost uniquely for civilised species, are egg laying mammals with an r-type reproductive strategy - and an average orc female lays about one egg every week, almost effortlessly and painlessly, and no male is needed to fertilise these eggs. The mother at that point stops worrying about her egg (if she were to worry about them all she'd go crazy), and about a week later from the egg hatches a 6" long orcling, already able to walk, speak orcish, seek food, and fend for itself. Which it has to because no one else is going to do it for them.

Life for a newly hatched orcling is hard and, indeed, less than one orc in a hundred reaches adulthood at the age of six or so [some form of metamorphosis?]. These orcs have almost invariably learned that the world will kill them if they don't kill the world first, to team up to bring down prey much bigger than themselves, and very little in the way of order or discipline. And most of them use the same tactics to bring down towns that they learned first on small dogs and later on bigger game. Fortunately orc bands more than two dozen strong tend to fall apart and take each other out, and orcs regard orclings as even more of a pest than other races do.

This r-type strategy, of course, makes orcs an almost perfect race for any would-be evil overlord looking to create a horde. Orcs spawn fast and if you only lose two thirds of the orcs through fairly brutal training you still have a horde of highly trained (although unimaginative) shock troops.

52% of orcs are male, probably because Gruumsh is, but there is no theoretical need for male orcs and indeed there have been orcish societies that decreed all male orcs to be killed.

If an orc is raised in an environment where there isn't a 99% chance of death before they reach adulthood, orcs learn well and can make good artists or even wizards. This is amply demonstrated by the civilised orc societies that made good neighbours. In every case such a society has somehow restricted their birth or hatching rates, then parenting the few orclings allowed to live.
 

Interesting. I wouldn't go for the "weird biology" angle myself, but I tend to find antagonists a lot more interesting if they're relatable to the audience. I also like to work with the mythic depth in a thing rather than trying to redefine it, but that does certainly limit one's palette.

In other news, I've had a think about what mechanics I might employ for my vision of orcs and gnolls.

[sblock=Orc!]
The mechanics in the playtest are pretty nice. Furious Charge is a good "RAARGH SMASH!" move that can intimidate players with a spike in damage, Death Strike is a great move to represent Tenacity, and Wounded Retaliation works with the idea of building up anger.

Other possibilities:
  • Unquenchable: When the orc drops to 0 hp, it makes a Constitution save (DC 11) to avoid dropping unconscious. It must make this save each round it remains at 0 hp.
  • Lash Out: When the orc is hit by a melee attack, the person who hit it takes 1d6 damage as the orc retaliates.
  • Spiteful Rend: When the orc drops an opponent to 0 hp, it continues to savage the unconscious corpse. The opponent automatically fails its first death save due to the damage.
  • Rancor: When the orc hits a creature who has been healed in this encounter, the orc deals an additional 1d6 damage, furious that they dare fight on.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Gnoll]
The playtest rules are so-so. Pack attack is kind of a bland central ability for the gnolls, I think, though Demonic Frenzy and Feed on the Weak are not so bad....though they're also not so great. Demonic Frenzy is rather generic and Feed on the Weak is a little blatantly supernatural.

Other possibilities:
  • Delight in Carnage: For every creature (enemy or ally) reduced to 0 hp in the encounter, the gnoll gains a +1 bonus to damage rolls. This bonus stacks.
  • Bleeding Wound: When the gnoll hits with an attack, the wound bleeds for Ongoing 5 damage. A Constitution save (DC 11) will stop the bleeding.
  • Torment the Vulnerable: When the gnoll attacks a prone creature, the creature takes an additional 1d6 damage.
  • Chew Toy: The gnoll can take a standard action to savage a creature that is currently dying. The creature automatically fails their next death save.
[/sblock]

...there's probably other ideas, too, that's just kind of what I came up with in five minutes.
 

However, what really struck me about the article, and the exercise as a whole, is that it's largely unnecessary. It could be replaced with eight words:

Orcs: See "Monstrous Manual".

Gnolls: See "Monstrous Manual".

Small problem: 2e orcs are LAWFUL Evil. a few monsters in 1e/2e have weird alignments as well (drow being CE, goblins LE). If we're going with the 3e-era alignments; we need to a bit of a re-write somewhere.
 

Interesting. I wouldn't go for the "weird biology" angle myself, but I tend to find antagonists a lot more interesting if they're relatable to the audience. I also like to work with the mythic depth in a thing rather than trying to redefine it, but that does certainly limit one's palette.

Interesting that you don't find the orcs with slightly weird biology relateable and find ones that are Elemental Hate are so. Because I'm completely the other way. I find "Member of the 1% of orcs that wasn't killed and didn't starve on the way to adulthood" to be much more human and understandable than something built round hatred. And find the idea that all orcs rejected civilisation in lockstep to be creepy and almost unrelateable - something weird is going on if no one differs on this point. Also the biology is something you might be able to work with and negotiate with rather than simply point in another direction.

The slightly weird biology is mostly there to explain the motivation, why orcs are made of anger at the world (some are made of hate but not all), and what you can do about it. Also it allows them to fit a lot of the roles they normally fill.

As for orc mechanics, I still like the late-4e one. When an orc dies it gets to hit back one last time.
 

Neonchameleon said:
I find "Member of the 1% of orcs that wasn't killed and didn't starve on the way to adulthood" to be much more human and understandable than something built round hatred. And find the idea that all orcs rejected civilisation in lockstep to be creepy and almost unrelateable - something weird is going on if no one differs on this point.

To me, that's weird. Hatred is something that I think most people have experienced at some point in their lives to one degree or another (even if it's just "Dang. I hate Justin Beiber."), but being the sole survivor of a generation is not exactly an experience many have had. Hatred is ubiquitous enough that religious leaders and generally peaceful people discuss it in very intimate terms.

The rejection of civilization is just an expression of that hatred. I think a lot of people have had the idea, in a fit of impotent anger at traffic or their job or at other peoples' stupidity, that it would just be nice to abandon it all and go start again in the wilderness without any of that junk, just you and an axe and your appetites. Orcs as I've seen them are a fictional and fantastic expression of that desire, which springs in part from that dislike of other people that all human beings on some level feel occasionally. If orcs are filled to the brim with an intense dislike of the rest of the world, why would they want to build a civilization? Why not just tear it down, feast on its remains, and move on to the next town? You might have to risk your life a little more, but you don't have to till the fields, or pay a tax, or rely on a specialist to build your house or shoe your horse. You're free -- free to express your dislike by taking what others have built, too.

As creatures of fantasy, Orcs as I see them are necessarily reflective of our own human hopes and dreams and nightmares. Fantasy is allegory, after all (even if it tries not to be). Orcs are a mirror held up to our anger and our violence, and so to present them in a way that has resonance, I think it's key to focus on that archetype.

As far as an explanation, I don't think you necessarily need one. Cultures work in part by repeating actions and patterns of thought. The reason a thing is done is because it has been done. Orcs as I see them are raised in an environment that encourages them to hold on to hatred, to nurture their fury, to use their rage to empower them. They are told myths that justify this fury, telling of ancient wrongs done to their people by the gods of the elves and the dwarves and the humans. True or exaggerated or not, they help the orc become familiar with the tense, stomach-churning feeling of being wronged, and then they are told to hold onto that, to cling to it because it will make them strong, to feel that red burning blood in their veins as the origin of their self-worth, the only thing that makes them worthy of respect and acceptance. When little Orc children come crying to their mothers about how Kregor beat them up, their mothers slap them for being weak and expecting sympathy. They tell their children to find Kregor, and beat HIM up, and if they can't do that, to nurture this feeling of pain and shame until they are strong enough to do it. "Don't expect me to do anything about it, whelp," their mother snarls. "If he is stronger than you, I'd rather have him for my child, anyway." The origins of these mores may lie deep in the mythic past with Gruumsh and his battles with the other gods, but the exact history doesn't matter so much. What matters is that to belong to orc culture is to embrace that fury. Living any other way would be as weird for a typical orc as it would be for you to be asked to live like a rural Indonesian.

Of course, as a game element, people can take them in their own directions if they want. If fish-like spawning fatherless orcs works for you at your table, that's boffo. I don't think they'd work at mine (too much emphasis on biology, not enough emphasis on the play experience of putting them in the game), but it's whatever. :p
 
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The Orc entry looks good to me, but I feel it should say something about them hating elves, and maybe something about Gruumsh since that's a big part of their identity.

Total, and mention the "animosity" between Gruumsh and Maglubiyet (meet in Acheron to fight).

Yes, I like that in the Bestiary they have mentioned the iconic racial gods:

-Gruumsh for orcs

-Hruggek for bugbears

-Maglubiyet for goblins

-Nomog-geaya for Hobgoblins

Now for Kurtulmak for kobolds, Vaprak the Destroyer for Ogres/Trolls etc.

I would like a return of racial gods, not one god fits all (without race).
 

Small problem: 2e orcs are LAWFUL Evil. a few monsters in 1e/2e have weird alignments as well (drow being CE, goblins LE). If we're going with the 3e-era alignments; we need to a bit of a re-write somewhere.

Well, to be frank, I've always considered those changes to be a case of fixing something that just wasn't broken in the first place. And the change to Drow, in particular, is just mistaken, IMO.

Still, even if they're going with the alignment changes, it's still a copy-and-paste job, not something to spend much effort on - frankly, their "Story Team" should have better things to do crafting the adventures for the new edition.

But then, I'm really not a fan of WotC's seeming need to redefine everything from old editions to meet some new vision.
 

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