War Trolls aren't Giants !?!?

[Nebulous]

If I were playing a 3rd level guy, a NORMAL Troll would scare me, much less this thing!

Well, yeah. I weakened it a little to compensate for its amped abilities, but the players didn't know that.

 

[Voadam]

Giant type has always bugged me. Why is it there exactly? Are giants anatomically different in significant ways from large humanoids?

Giant Type: A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size.

Monstrous Humanoid Type: Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well.

Humanoid Type: A humanoid usually has two arms, two legs, and one head, or a humanlike torso, arms, and a head. Humanoids have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but most can speak and usually have well-developed societies. They usually are Small or Medium. Every humanoid creature also has a subtype.

Mechanical differences between a giant and a large humanoid: good fortitude instead of reflex saves and low light vision. For that we have a new type.

btw, in Warcraft RPG Manual of Monsters most of the trolls are monstrous humanoids as well. And I understand in the revised edition jungle trolls as a playable race are straight humanoids.

 

[Voadam]

I have theory that the DMs of the world are declining in ability to do things.

Is good theory.

Entropy decays all things. So to get a DM with the best abilities, use a time machine. I hear those DMs had to walk through three feet of snow to get to their D&D games. They didn't have any fancy SRDs or pdf sourcebooks or full color art in their books. Making art blue was an advancement of edition changing proportions for them.

 

[Crothian]

Is good theory.

Entropy decays all things. So to get a DM with the best abilities, use a time machine. I hear those DMs had to walk through three feet of snow to get to their D&D games. They didn't have any fancy SRDs or pdf sourcebooks or full color art in their books. Making art blue was an advancement of edition changing proportions for them.

ACtually, I don't blamne entropy. I blame the games. Its too easy for people to think they can do it. And withy out a good example of what a good DM is people don't realize they are bad DMs. And most players rarely see many DMs so they never realize the DMs they have are not that good.

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

A lot of the creature types are completely arbitrary. I mean, is there really any anatomical, cultural, or historical connection between beholders and yuan-ti?

They're conveniences for the sake of the rules, nothing more. Why is one kind of troll a giant and another kind a monstrous humanoid? They're not, as far as the PC is concerned. As far as the characters know, creature types don't exist. If the DM in question did anything wrong, it was explaining to the players why the arrow didn't work properly - if the PCs had no way of knowing, the players shouldn't get to know. Especially not if they're just going to run to the internet and complain about it.

 

[Particle_Man]

Why is one kind of troll a giant and another kind a monstrous humanoid? They're not, as far as the PC is concerned. As far as the characters know, creature types don't exist.

This would be more convincing if Ranger Favored Enemy abilities, Dwarf AC bonuses and Bane weapons did not differentiate along creature type lines. A dwarf doesn't know that he is having trouble dodging the war troll?

 

[Caliban]

War Trolls are Monstrous Humanoids, instead of Giants, in order to more fully resemble the Warcraft Trolls they're based on.

I'm pretty sure that they are based on the old Rolemaster War Trolls, the flavor text is almost identical.

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

This would be more convincing if Ranger Favored Enemy abilities, Dwarf AC bonuses and Bane weapons did not differentiate along creature type lines. A dwarf doesn't know that he is having trouble dodging the war troll?

He may figure it out, but he won't know why. All the dwarf knows is that some creatures are more like the giants he was trained to fight than others. That's what the DM should tell the player - although the creature resembles a troll in most respects, it is untroll-like in the way it fights, and your traditional dwarven combat skills are of less use.

If war trolls are uncommon in the campaign, it's reasonable that the PC won't know this in advance (that is, the DC on the character's knowledge check may be very high).

The idea that a character is going to divide monsters into types systematically, and that this division is always going to be accurate and predictable, is silly. It's good if there are creatures who go against type - it makes things more realistic, and discourages metagaming.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

My mummies are blue and they drain energy levels! And they are Aberrations not Undead!

No, if you are going to have a classification system at all then you should have it make sense, not just change it for a 'DM's Surprise!'

The Auld Grump

 

[Mercule]

I've thought about adding a level of barbarian to a dragon . . .

Try fighter and/or eldritch knight. Little do the players realize that the king they've recently had as patron is really a polymorphed green dragon playing at politics. Just because he's known for being an excellent warrior, a bit aggressive, enjoying hunting trips into the forests, and "collecting" baubles is no reason to suspect him (true, actually).

It remains to be seen whether the PCs ultimately find him to be friend or foe. I guess it all depends on whether they discover that he's been willing to bind devils to do his bidding.