Warforged adamantine body = adamantine slam?

[LokiDR]

It does say what I said it does, as you just repeated. The relevant portion to me is the first half of the sentence. It is, in almost all ways, adamantine armor bolted on you.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"You will give me $1,000 if I live in Boston."

I don't live in Boston, but the "relevant portion to me is the first half of the sentence." Do you owe me $1,000?

Is overcoming DR X / admantine and ignoring up to 20 points of hardness "a class ability that depends on armor use"?

No, it isn't.

Accrordingly, Adamantine Body doesn't let you act as if you were wearing an adamantine gauntlet - attacking with which, by the way, is an unarmed strike, not a slam attack.

It is, in almost all ways, adamantine armor bolted on you.

It's funny you should say that, because that is exactly what Adamantine Body is not - otherwise, why can't a warforged just bolt it on later? Why does it cost a feat that can only be taken at 1st-level?

No, Adamantine Body represents a "heavy trooper" version of the basic warforged model, one made with more adamantine in its frame, with additional reinforcement, than a normal warforged. It can only be taken at 1st-level because, after that, the warforged has already been made. Bolting adamantine plates on it is just giving it a suit of armor - something that warforged cannot wear.

For what it's worth, Keith Baker says you're wrong, too:

Q If a Warforged took the Adamantine Body Feat, is it ok to treat its Slam attack as adamantine for purpose of overcoming damage reduction?

A I wouldn't, personally. The Adamantine Body is very deceptive in its current name & description. Really, it implies a more heavily armored construction with some elements of adamantine-infused material, but I have never seen it as plates of solid adamantine attached to the exterior of the body. So I don't feel that it would be significant enough to add this – get an adamantine battlefist.

And ...

The armored body feats simply aren't described clearly. An adamantine body warforged is not simply supposed to be a standard warforged with some plates hammered on; if that was the case, why couldn't you add them later in life? These feats are supposed to reflect the fundamental construction of the warforged. A fighter with the Adamantine Body has more metal (both adamantine and steel) in his body. His joints and weak points are heavily reinforced. He is built to be able to shrug off blows that would seriously injure a composite warforged. The mithral warforged is armored, but designed for more graceful motion and fluid movement than the adamantine model. The composite is the base -- and yes, in my opinion, not very common. Warforged were made for war, and most would have one of the armor feats. The armor feats are not supposed to use as much of the rare ore as making a suit of platemail of that armor; the metal is spread throughout the body, and not as much is needed to provide the benefit (and again, in the case of Adamantine Body, the benefit also comes from the general solid construction).

 

[LokiDR]

"You will give me $1,000 if I live in Boston."

I don't live in Boston, but the "relevant portion to me is the first half of the sentence." Do you owe me $1,000?

That's an invalid analogy. We aren't talking about an if...then sentance. We are talking about a description, one that states the warforged with AB 'wearing heavy armor' in at least one or more respects.

Is overcoming DR X / admantine and ignoring up to 20 points of hardness "a class ability that depends on armor use"?

No, it isn't.

What is your point? This is a function of the feat and the nature of the race, not a class ability. The composite construction of a warforged amounts to armor. It is functionally armor, it takes the slot of armor, it counts as armor for class abilities. Why is it such a leap to say it IS armor?

Accrordingly, Adamantine Body doesn't let you act as if you were wearing an adamantine gauntlet - attacking with which, by the way, is an unarmed strike, not a slam attack.

Have you missed the analogy? Where a humanoid can take off their armor, a warforged cannot. Hence, the warforged are not 'unarmed' they always have their slam. Are you saying a warforged slam is somehow different than unarmed attack? Are you implying that a warforged monk wouldn't function the same as a humanoid monk?

It's funny you should say that, because that is exactly what Adamantine Body is not - otherwise, why can't a warforged just bolt it on later? Why does it cost a feat that can only be taken at 1st-level?

You are ignoring the content of my post to nitpick word choice. It is inhearent armor, armor that is part of the character's origins. But in all ways, it functions as armor. In this case, heavy armor. Why would there be so much effort in refering to the composite contruction in general and adamantine body in specific as armor if this were not the case.

For what it's worth, Keith Baker says you're wrong, too:

That isn't worth much, since he says it was poorly written.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's an invalid analogy. We aren't talking about an if...then sentance. We are talking about a description, one that states the warforged with AB 'wearing heavy armor' in at least one or more respects.

Yes, we are.

"If you are dealing with a class ability that is restricted based on armor, then warforged are considered to be wearing heavy armor."

This sentence is identical in meaning to the one from book.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's an invalid analogy. We aren't talking about an if...then sentance. We are talking about a description, one that states the warforged with AB 'wearing heavy armor' in at least one or more respects.

Let's take a different analogy - say, Magic Vestment:

"An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell."

And the monk:

"These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load."

Can a monk retain her AC bonuses when wearing an outfit of regular clothing?

-Hyp.

 

[ForceUser]

That isn't worth much, since he says it was poorly written.

Baker's input is good enough for me.

 

[LokiDR]

Yes, we are.

"If you are dealing with a class ability that is restricted based on armor, then warforged are considered to be wearing heavy armor."

This sentence is identical in meaning to the one from book.

But that isn't the only similarity, is it?

 

[LokiDR]

Let's take a different analogy - say, Magic Vestment:

"An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell."

And the monk:

"These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load."

Can a monk retain her AC bonuses when wearing an outfit of regular clothing?

If that spell was a part of the monk description, yes. Likewise, I would say a monk loses his AC bonuses when the spell is cast on him. But this spell doesn't affect the monk when the spell is not in effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But this spell doesn't affect the monk when the spell is not in effect.

But the first part of the sentence says it counts as armor! The relevant portion to me is the first half of the sentence, that says regular clothing counts as armor in one or more respects.

Aren't I allowed to ignore "for the purpose of" clauses as if they don't appear in the sentence?

-Hyp.

 

[Klaus]

Adamantine Body doesn't allow a warforged to bypass DR x/adamantine. If it did allow it, it would specifically say that "a warforged with Adamantine Body can bypass adamantine-based DR with its natural attacks". Which it doesn't.

And the adamantine isn't "bolted". When the warforged is being created, the Cannith heirs channel their dragonmarks into the creation forge, in a way similar to major creation and fabricate. The materials that make up a warforged are created by magic, and degrade if taken away. The warforged emerges fully formed from the forge, made up of wood, steel, stone and, if it has the appropriate Body feat, mithril, adamantine or ironwood.