D&D 5E Warforged, Changelings, and Thri Kreen in the PHB?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

All races are campaign specific.

This, and even if a race is present, they might not be a valid PC race. (No drow for any campaign I run; other DMs can differ.)

I love thri-kreen and warforged, but they're both too obvious and weird to be thrown into every setting, or even most of them. I'm running Dark Sun 4e right now, and races like thri-kreen (had one PC), half-giants (one current PC) and muls (none) make sense... and warforged wouldn't. In FR, probably neither would make sense.

 

[Teacher Man]

This, and even if a race is present, they might not be a valid PC race. (No drow for any campaign I run; other DMs can differ.)

I love thri-kreen and warforged, but they're both too obvious and weird to be thrown into every setting, or even most of them. I'm running Dark Sun 4e right now, and races like thri-kreen (had one PC), half-giants (one current PC) and muls (none) make sense... and warforged wouldn't. In FR, probably neither would make sense.

One of the GMs in our club hates gnomes with a passion, so his campaign is gnome free. Of course I come up with as many ways to make gnometastic puns as I can during the game, just because I can. It's good to be the adviser...

 

[I'm A Banana]

I know! The only race in there should be human. That way, I don't have to rip out all the rest of the garbage.

There is a grain of truth to this, but I think it misses a bit of a distinction.

The "core" D&D experience is probably going to be designed to be "what you expect when you sit down for a basic D&D experience," with the idea that this is something that is edition-independent.

D&D has a certain expected brand, good or bad. Colorful dragons, elves, dwarves, halflings, half-elves, 1970's-style sci fi monsters like beholders and mindflayers and displacer beasts, mythic critters like dryads, nymphs, minotaurs, four main character classes, spells, traps, treasure, etc. When most people think of "D&D," that's the kind of thing they think of.

So that's probably what's going to be "assumed core." It's likely not going to be a re-definition as much as it is a reiteration.

Modifications come on top of that. Extra races are part of those modifications. They aren't necessarily required for "D&D-style fantasy adventure", they wouldn't be missed if they were absent from a stripped-down core. But elves probably would, so if you'd like to omit elves, that's a more fundamental change than omitting warforged. If you'd like to include elves, that's a more standard move than including warforged.

And an all-human game, regardless of edition, has always been one of the easiest things to do.

 

[Rechan]

There is a grain of truth to this, but I think it misses a bit of a distinction.

I was mostly being sarcastic, hence the winky face. But the point being that anything can be garbage to someone (like myself who loathes the core races), AND that "If you don't want that stuff in your game, say no" because someone who has to have a human-only game is going to have to say no a lot, period.

I know what is meant by "The Core D&D experience". I was just ignoring it to make a point.

 

[Rechan]

And adding any races beyond option 2 will inevitably lead to complaints about people "not wanting insects/robots/whatever in their fantasy".

As if allowing Dragonborn and Tieflings and Eladrin aren't going to cause the same kinds of complaints to begin with.

and warforged wouldn't. In FR, probably neither would make sense.

I've seen lovely ways for Warforged to be put in FR and Dark Sun.

Dark Sun: Warforged made of stone and bone. The created warriors of a Sorcerer King, an unrelenting force that can walk the sands with no need of water, food, or shielding from the sun.

FR: FR is the quintessential Kitchen Sink setting, High Fantasy Craziness; how could they not fit? They could come from the tinkery Gnome country whose name I forget, creations of Halruaa the wizard kingdom, or the creation of the Dwarves. Hell, they could have once been golems, made sentient by the Spellplague.

 

[delericho]

As if allowing Dragonborn and Tieflings and Eladrin aren't going to cause the same kinds of complaints to begin with.

Oh, probably. It's just that I think that's less controversial than going for the 3e "core set" would be - it would be seen as a deliberate snub to 4e fans. At least including all the races from the PHB (1) of all editions has an easy and obvious justification.

But, yes, there's absolutely no way to make everyone happy - just as there are some who definitely do want Dragonborn in their PHB, there's a group who are adamant that they want them excluded.

I've seen lovely ways for Warforged to be put in FR and Dark Sun.

Yep. I wouldn't want to see Warforged in either of those settings (nor Gnomes in Dark Sun, Half-ogres in Eberron, or Thri-kreen (as PCs) in FR), but that's out of an interesting in maintaining the distinctiveness of the settings. It's certainly possible to build flavour text to just including... well, just about anything, really.

 

[Steely_Dan]

I'm running Dark Sun 4e right now, and races like thri-kreen (had one PC), half-giants (one current PC) and muls (none) make sense... and warforged wouldn't. In FR, probably neither would make sense.

I believe thri-kreen exit in FR (they go back to the 1st Ed MM2).

As for kitchen sink, I have a Planescape campaign of 7 years, and the players can pretty much choose anything (so far the party has had drow, human, gnome, aasimar, half-orc, thri-kreen, dwarf, genasi, elf, half-celestial/half-human).

I would like a Savage Species type deal for 5th Ed, able to start at 1st level as a treant and powerful creatures such as that.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I was mostly being sarcastic, hence the winky face. But the point being that anything can be garbage to someone (like myself who loathes the core races), AND that "If you don't want that stuff in your game, say no" because someone who has to have a human-only game is going to have to say no a lot, period.

I know what is meant by "The Core D&D experience". I was just ignoring it to make a point.

Ya, I know, I just figured it'd be useful to tease out the grain of truth there from the sarcasm.

 

[Li Shenron]

Wasn't there a racial "rarity" list being discussed for 5E at one time?

You are right... they mentioned common/uncommon/rare races at some point.

If they continue with that plan, one thing they could do is:

- give each Common race a full PHB entry (1-2 pages), subraces, and racial-restricted stuff (feats, prestige classes...)

- give all Uncommon races 1-2 shared pages with only their brief description, no subraces, no racial own stuff

- feature Rare classes in the DMG or MM (but if space allows, at this point would be ok for me in PHB too)

What races are we looking at being in the PHB if they go with "has to have been in a PHB(1)?"

I don't think that sounds a nice criteria for Common, but could work for Uncommon.

I think the best would be Common = have been in ALL editions' PHB, and Uncommon = have been in ANY editions' PHB.

Hence,
- Common: Human, Elf*, Dwarf, Halfling
- Uncommon: Dragonborn, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tiefling
- Rare: get creative... Orcs, Hobgoblin, Genasi, Aasimar and some playable undead race would be my favourite candidates

*Drow as Common if an Elf subrace, Uncommon if a separate race

 

[pemerton]

- Common: Human, Elf*, Dwarf, Halfling
- Uncommon: Dragonborn, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tiefling

There were no half-elves in B/X or original D&D, but I think they've been in every PHB.