Warforged ECL 0???? Yeah right!!!!

[Gundark]

I have been running the AoW in Eberron, 2 of the group are Warforged (WF). One is a wizard and another is a fighter/WF juggernaught. The WF in the group are immune to sooo much stuff. I know that someone will bring up healing, but this isn't a big deal. The wizard packs these wands of (the WF cure spell that is an arcane spell) and heals the WF fighter every turn.

I don't know...they just seem that they are too good. Comments? Has anyone tinkered with the race? The thing is I really like the WF and want to include them in future campaigns. And I don't like the idea of a +1 LA

 

[Crothian]

Sure, they have some annoying immunities but it has never been that big a deal. And having to have special wands to heal them just makes healing cost that much higher.

 

[lukelightning]

I do think that the immunity to poison is a bit much, considering how much of a threat poison normally is to PCs. Plus the no breathing thing means they effectively get "water breathing" for free.

 

[Gundark]

I don't know...maybe it's the AoW AP. there are sooo many poison traps or stuff they are immune to in the AP. Who knows maybe int he Eberron adventrues it would be different.

 

[Henry]

I know that someone will bring up healing, but this isn't a big deal. The wizard packs these wands of (the WF cure spell that is an arcane spell) and heals the WF fighter every turn.

Does the wizard have some kind of special feat or a bard level to help him do this? By default rules, this is a no-no, and I'm not aware of anything other than a level of another class to let him do that.

Beside that, that's some pretty expensive healing long-term -- 750 gp for one wand, and you have to use twice as many of its charges to make it work.

I don't know...they just seem that they are too good. Comments? Has anyone tinkered with the race? The thing is I really like the WF and want to include them in future campaigns. And I don't like the idea of a +1 LA

We've never had a problem with them, because we never relied on poisons much. I never saw players rushing to play warforged in droves, only one or two, and they never had a big advantage over the party.

If you wanted to tone them down, I would probably remove the immunity to ability damage or drain, and possibly even immunity to fatigue and no need for sleep. It's easy enough to explain, in that they need time to rejuvenate, or for their minds to rest similar to flesh creatures. Warforged are not all metal, they are also part organic components, too, even if not alive in the same sense.

 

[Crothian]

I don't know...maybe it's the AoW AP. there are sooo many poison traps or stuff they are immune to in the AP. Who knows maybe int he Eberron adventrues it would be different.

So far we are in the third full module and there has been very little poison. But even in AoW, remove the poison for different types of traps. I beleive a DM has to sometimes change adventures to help fit and challenge the PCs.

 

[lukelightning]

I don't see why there can't be some special "alchemical" poisons that affect warforged. After all, they were used in warfare and anti-warforged techniques would have been researched. As pointed out, they are organic beings.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't know...maybe it's the AoW AP. there are sooo many poison traps or stuff they are immune to in the AP. Who knows maybe int he Eberron adventrues it would be different.

Swap a few poison traps for ones that do straight up damage. The warforged is actually worse off with those than anyone else. Even a few of those will even the odds.

Having to have their own dedicated healer or magic healing items is a HUGE problem for warforged, though.

 

[stonegod]

There are several issues here.

Arguments against ECL 0:
- Warforged were designed so that they would be a good choice in Eberron. To do that, they chose ECL +0.
- Warforged also benefit from some great feats (though they burn up those feat slots).
- Compared to some ECL +1 critters, warforged do come out better (Hobgoblins?)

But:
- Healing is an important issue, and an important mitigating factor in general. Wizards do not get spontaneous repair spells, and burning 750 gp at lower levels is a major investment.
- Most of the immunities are occasional things. At lower levels they have a larger impact, true, much less so at the higher.
- For any non-fighter role, warforged are at a disadvantage (low Wis/Cha, armor check penalties)

Again, it depends on the campaign. A warforged cleric/paladin would own AoW in places (though there is some interesting debate on what the worms would do to them).

I'd agree they're ECL +0.5 at least, not sure about a full +1 (I think Hobgoblins are a bit weak for ECL +1). There are some people who would strongly disagree with me. So take that as you will.

 

[Henry]

But even in AoW, remove the poison for different types of traps. I beleive a DM has to sometimes change adventures to help fit and challenge the PCs.

Heck, or even leave the poison in one or two of the traps, just to highlight the advantages that the warforged gave up in exchange for extra feats, skills, bonuses vs. enemies, armored mobility, bonus weapon proficiencies, bonus to AC vs. racial enemies, or higher STR or DEX that the other races get. You can take it out and replace with simple damaging traps, but I'd leave one or two in to give the warforged player a good feeling about his pick.