D&D 4E Warhammer fantasy 4E D&D - Proposed House Rules?

[Nikosandros]

Personally, I think that a lot of the charm is in the rules... maybe not the specific mechanics, but the general idea behind them, which is quite far from D&D.

Combat is dangerous and deadly. Magic is also very dangerous and unreliable. Characters are not shiny heroes, but common folks who must become heroic in order to survive... the weak starting careers are quite a part of the WHFRP experience IMHO.

I really consider D&D a poor fit for such setting, but don't let my ramblings stop you...

 

[Emirikol]

Personally, I think that a lot of the charm is in the rules... maybe not the specific mechanics, but the general idea behind them, which is quite far from D&D. Combat is dangerous and deadly. Magic is also very dangerous and unreliable. Characters are not shiny heroes, but common folks who must become heroic in order to survive... the weak starting careers are quite a part of the WHFRP experience IMHO. I really consider D&D a poor fit for such setting, but don't let my ramblings stop you...

Oh, I hear you on the "commoners becomming heroes" idea and I think that's always been fantastic and something lacking from D&D. I think D&D 3.x would have been much better if instead of 1st level weakness, there was more connection to a characters beginnings..but wotc probably realized that would be blatant gaming plagarism. In 4E of course, PC's start out equivalent to what? 3rd level characters from 3x or something? Might be neat to house rule something like the 0th level from 2E. I wonder how that could be accomplished simply.

jh

 

[Frostmarrow]

Oh, I hear you on the "commoners becomming heroes" idea and I think that's always been fantastic and something lacking from D&D. I think D&D 3.x would have been much better if instead of 1st level weakness, there was more connection to a characters beginnings..but wotc probably realized that would be blatant gaming plagarism. In 4E of course, PC's start out equivalent to what? 3rd level characters from 3x or something? Might be neat to house rule something like the 0th level from 2E. I wonder how that could be accomplished simply?

jh

The math behind heroic, paragon, and epic level could probably just be shifted down one notch to common. Since they are not going to use the span 1-20 but say 5-14 thrice.

 

[Mortellan]

One thing to remember though is that magic-users in WFRP are really really lousy. That's part of the charm. However, if you just substitute warhammer wizards for D&D wizards then the wizards of the game will be magnitudes better and infinitely more useful. You might want to keep the Warhammer spells (and colours) and tie their difficulty to spell level somehow.

Don't bother porting Fate points. They are just extra lives patched on a broken combat system. Sure, WFRP is deadly, too deadly, but that doesn't count since PCs have extra lives. While you have Fate points you cannot die.

Fate points are hardly more effective than the arm's length-list of ways to keep your character from dying in D&D. I definitely agree on the Wizards though!

 

[Talislan]

is there nothing already that bridges the gap between D&D and WFRP?

I agree with the points so far but was just wondering (and it may help the OP) has anyone tried this before?
or are there any other systems out there that sit between these two?

T.

 

[Dragonbait]

The WHFRP is a relatively low-magic setting (at least, the characters do not have access to a lot of magic). IF 4E claims that one can remove magic from the characters without having the game go to crap is true, then it might be a great conversion.

Regarding the Skink/Saurus/Kroxigor/Slaan stuff: I'm an edition or two off with my Lizardman fluff, so... The Skink would be a very playable character (intelligent, no overpowering abilities) the Saurus would have a major Dex and Int penalty. It seemed like WoTC tried to make their own skink/saurus/kroxigor versions: the Poison Dusk Lizardfolk/Common Lizardfolk (Sunscale)/Blackscale Lizardfolk.

There are two caveats though:
First: The Lizardmen are not native to the Old World from all the fluff I've read. Any lizardman found would be far from home. They come from either Lustria or the Warhammer's equivalent to Africa (I forget the proper name).

Second: How do you think the people of the Empire would react to a lizard creature walking around? Especially if it 'imitates' the actions of humans and dwarves? I think that a lizardman would have a horrendously difficult time in the Empire, but that could be very fun to play out. Most people would probably see them as beastmen or maybe a familair to a wizard. Of course they would not know that the Lizardfolk are enemies of Chaos, and they probably would not care.

 

[GnomeWorks]

The math behind heroic, paragon, and epic level could probably just be shifted down one notch to common. Since they are not going to use the span 1-20 but say 5-14 thrice.

That is an interesting idea.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Since I've burned out on FR, GH, ebb, and whatnot. I've been searching for a new world that I can start 4E in. I've settled on the Warhammer Fantasy RPG Old World. I think it's one heck of a game world (without the rules). There's nothing in the d10 rules that the D&D rules don't do just as well, which surprised me when I read the book the other day.

Other than house ruling the curse on wizards and divine spellcasters as a 1 on a d20 roll and requiring a "profession" for role-playing, I don't see much for hangups. Other stuff like schools of magic can be winged (or done away with in rule form actually for as far as I'm concerned).

It seems it will fit very well with 4E D&D's "points of light" concept..and probably better than our current options.

Thoughts?

Here're the world and regional maps btw:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/wallpapers/images/6-1024x768.jpg

http://nexusx.wanadooadsl.net/ayudas/Warhammer_World_Map.jpg

jh

Awesome idea! I'd love to help out.

Actually, I think that 4E will work very well with Warhammer, since the Heroic/Paragon/Epic works really well with Warhammer's emphasis on careers and characters developing with time, with a lot of very iconic Paragon and Epic choices. For example, I could see an Imperial Fighter who specializes in greatswords taking Carroberg Greatsword as his paragon path, and then becoming Imperial Champion or Elector Count, or a Bretonnian Fighter who's also a greatsword specialist becoming a Questing Knight for Paragon and a Grail Knight for Epic.

Moreover, 4E magic (with the addition of Tzeentch's curse) will work much better to represent Warhammer magic. I agree with others, you probably should create variant power lists to represent the different schools of magic. It could create some really fun ways to do Controller differently: from a Bright Wizard pure blaster to a more subtle Gold Wizard buffing and debuffing. In terms of advancement, I could definately see something like BLANK Wizard --> Wizard Lord, Battlemage, etc. ---> Patriarch, Dark Pact (for those who turn all Chaosy), etc. The only thing that might need to change is that a Warlock would need to Chaos up a bit.

As for races, Eladrin work really well as Asur, Elves ditto as Asrai, and Drow as Druchii. Dwarfs is Dwarfs, but you could add some racial abilities (Grudge as marking?) and Slayer as an Epic path. Halflings just require a bit of an appearance change. Tieflings and whatnot would probably have to go, in that any Imperial citizen would kill them on sight. Dragonborn as Lizardmen would work, but they'd have to be really restricted: humans don't consider them to be sentient beings, only really the Elves would be able to party with them, and then it's stretching things.

 

[LowSpine]

Oh, I hear you on the "commoners becomming heroes" idea and I think that's always been fantastic and something lacking from D&D. I think D&D 3.x would have been much better if instead of 1st level weakness, there was more connection to a characters beginnings..but wotc probably realized that would be blatant gaming plagarism. In 4E of course, PC's start out equivalent to what? 3rd level characters from 3x or something? Might be neat to house rule something like the 0th level from 2E. I wonder how that could be accomplished simply.

jh

Perhaps create pre-class careers. They would be like classes, but their powers would work up to them. HPs would work up, BAB of +0, craft/profession skills. It might be a bit dull, though.

I have been looking into Warhammer, just while I'm waiting, and I must admit the setting looks interesting. I like the look of the dwarf troll-slayers or whatever they are, that are plagued with dishonour and are seeking to die in stupid battles they cannot win. And also the cleric things with the hammers - which made me laugh because I didn't realize the Thief games had blatantly stolen them (IMO.)

oh, and Choas and the Chaos Warriors are excellent.

 

[mmadsen]

There's nothing in the d10 rules that the D&D rules don't do just as well, which surprised me when I read the book the other day.

That's an odd assertion. Have you played a session using the Warhammer FRP rules? Because most people find it quite different from D&D, even if they share a lot of basic ideas. The devil's in the details.