Warhammer Flavor in D&D


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In What did you like about Warhammer Fantasy?, Joshua Dyal recommended "using d20 Call of Cthulhu as your rules base, adding in some of the better elements of the Book of Vile Darkness, Armies of the Abyss, Legions of Hell and Warrens of the Rat?"

That's a start. Would you make up small not-quite-Prestige Classes for each Warhammer career? Or would you skip that entirely? Would you use d20 Call of Cthulhu's magic system? That effectively removes all classes except the Fighter, Rogue, Expert, etc. Would that fit the Warhammer world?
 
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My campaign uses a lot of similar stuff to Warhammer Fantasy, although partly this is because we borrow from the same source (Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels) - grubby cities, corruption, the threat of Chaos, hideous beastmen et al. IMC Chaos is identified with the Abyss & its demons, which isn't wholly satisfactory but it's not like most inhabitants of Ea are familiar with D&D cosmology.
 

There is a d20WHFRP Yahoo Group that has done a lot of conversion work already. I haven't read all of it, but one thing that I wasn't super-enthused about was the extent to which they used 3e rules & classes.

I actually have been poking around with some different ideas about ways to do this since an earlier thread on the topic. I too have been considering COC as a better d20 model than D&D for my possible conversion.

One issue I've had, though, is Level-progression. I'm not entirely happy with the way that skills and abilities (Saves, BAB, etc.) all jump each time you level up. I'd prefer a way to have progress as more incremental and individualized (closer to advance schemes in WHFRP, i guess :D ). One possible way to do this is through having increases in things like Saves and BAB be "purchased" with XP instead of going up in level. This is actually more of a GURPS-like mechanic. You get __XP? You can use that to gain a +1 to your Will Save or Ranged BAB. This may be adding too much complication for too little benefit though.

I do like the templates as opposed to classes. Very easy to make basic careers with templates. Offense v. Defense profile is a nice touch, too. It does make the spellcasters a bit tricky, though. One way I thought of handling wizards, etc. was to make "Levels" in spellcasting (Wizard's Apprentice, etc.) into Feats with certain prerequisites. Like the "Sensitive" Feat in CoC or the "Magery" advantage in GURPS. You'd have to gain the ability to cast minor spells before gaining the ability to cast more & more powerful ones. You'd learn spells one at a time as well, with a limit (probably INT-based) on total spells known. I also have considered using Spellcraft rolls to determine whether a spell is successfully cast or not. Prestige Classes are one option to handle spellcasting, but since the templates aren't exactly classes, that got a bit murky too.

I also thought a score-based Mana Point system would make sense instead of "slots" per day. Perhaps something like INT+WIS. Then, as you gain more spellcasting feats (from Apprentice to Journeyman to Master, etc.) you would gain X amount of mana as you gained more ability.

To reflect the danger of combat, CoCd20 does a pretty good job already. Throw in a few colorful critical hit tables and you're about set. I figured base HP = CON, then flat 1d6 after that (no CON modifier). Massive Damage limit = CON.

Well, that's my half-baked thoery at any rate.
 

I think the CoC magic system is great for a WHFRP-toned game. Sure, the details aren't the same, but the feeling of magic as something that a) you're scared to use, and b) you never really get great at it, carry through very well.

Also, even with the levelling in CoC, at extremely high level, you're no match whatsoever for a dragon, or a greater demon (something like a marilith or a balor, for instance, which I'd guess would be about as powerful as I'd expect a bloodthirster or great unclean one or keeper of secrets or whatever to be). That way, you can develop into a hero of sorts, but you still are nowhere near the biggest guy on the block. And with the lowered death from massive damage threshold of CoC, you can still die from a sneaky git hobgoblin if you're not careful.
 

I think the CoC magic system is great for a WHFRP-toned game. Sure, the details aren't the same, but the feeling of magic as something that a) you're scared to use, and b) you never really get great at it, carry through very well.

Not all magic is corrupting in WH -though it might be fun to play it that way :D- Making the spell list a little more varied and grimoires a bit easier to find than in CoC (not TOO many spells or TOO common) would probably do the trick, though. I might still like limiting the learning of spells to only certain characters. Possibly a "Magery" feat?

Also, even with the levelling in CoC, at extremely high level, you're no match whatsoever for a dragon, or a greater demon (something like a marilith or a balor, for instance, which I'd guess would be about as powerful as I'd expect a bloodthirster or great unclean one or keeper of secrets or whatever to be). That way, you can develop into a hero of sorts, but you still are nowhere near the biggest guy on the block. And with the lowered death from massive damage threshold of CoC, you can still die from a sneaky git hobgoblin if you're not careful.

True enough. Like I said before, probably not enough benefit for the effort and confusion.

I forgot to mention the lovely meshing of the Sanity rules too! :D No need to change a thing from CoC, really. The SAN loss rules also inspired me to play with the idea of a "Corruption" score (similar to LOTR RPG). Where chaos can corrupt and warp you over time (growing horns, diseases, etc.).
 

Maybe not, although a variant of d20 that had point buy advancement instead of levelling is something I'd like to see in it's own right.

But I don't think it's necessary for our purposes here.
 


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