D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[zaratan]

To my mind, and giving the words what I consider to be their ordinary meaning, "concentration" and "rest" are mutually exclusive. If I am concentrating on something I am not resting. If I am resting I am clearing my mind and relaxing. I would therefore rule that you cannot rest and concentrate on a spell.

(I think the problem here may be that "concentration" in D&D isn't really what I would call "concentration" but instead is a mechanism to prevent multiple spells of particular types being active and that mechanism is called "concentration". But I still favour my interpretation of the rules.)

So, meditation is knowed for improve concentration (mindfulness and concentration are two different things by meditsion studies). Monk ki text state that they can meditate in a short rest and get all benefits. But casters don't?
"No no no, the concentration in spell is different than that one you reach with meditation..."[emoji19]

 

[Wepwawet]

I genuinely don't understand why this is a problem, in any way. It looks like it's RAW, possibly RAI, and...not overpowered.

It is a problem because you are gimping every other Warlock that didn't choose Hex. That's unfair for other players.

Every other Warlock has 2 spell slots, while yours is effectively walking around with 3 spell slots.

If you honestly think that Warlocks are underpowered and NEED Hex, then give it to all of them as an always on ability.

My opinion is that they're not underpowered at all, and I'm certain that the designers didn't intend Hex as a mandatory spell.

 

[zaratan]

I'm pretty shur that game designer want hex as a mandatory spell for warlock, with eldritch blast too. As hunter's querry for ranger. Dm nerfing eldritch blast because one warlock get it and the other don't looks stupid when both get yhe chance.
If he lose concentration, he need cast again, he lose hex if cast any other concentration spell. Want to use hold monster? Bye hex. Those teo things are enought to controle hex.
If you're the DM and don't like the warlock with hex, just make the enemies attack that "witch" cursing one of they ally.

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[Wepwawet]

I'm pretty shur that game designer want hex as a mandatory spell for warlock, with eldritch blast too.

Nope. Not at all.

In 4E it was part of their base abilities, like the ranger's hunter's mark. I assume that the idea of the hex bag o rats comes from there..

But nowadays it's just one spell that they can choose. In fact I never paid any attention to that spell until I saw all these discussions. The Warlock I DM'd also didn't even look at it. And he was fine.

It's just a spell like any other. Very useful, yes, but just another spell.

You think hexbagorats is necessary, give it free to everyone at your table and be done with it.

 

[zaratan]

Nope. Not at all.

In 4E it was part of their base abilities, like the ranger's hunter's mark. I assume that the idea of the hex bag o rats comes from there..

But nowadays it's just one spell that they can choose. In fact I never paid any attention to that spell until I saw all these discussions. The Warlock I DM'd also didn't even look at it. And he was fine.

It's just a spell like any other. Very useful, yes, but just another spell.

You think hexbagorats is necessary, give it free to everyone at your table and be done with it.

Isn't "necessary", is free to choose. But as eldritch blast, fireball, hunter's mark, shield are, normally, the first choice.
Nerfing one of those because you didn't picked when you get the chance looks jealousy. If you don't want it, way do you care?

 

[The Hierophant]

So, meditation is knowed for improve concentration (mindfulness and concentration are two different things by meditsion studies). Monk ki text state that they can meditate in a short rest and get all benefits. But casters don't?
"No no no, the concentration in spell is different than that one you reach with meditation..."[emoji19]

I think that is a totally different point. Meditation may well improve concentration but it improves concentration when one is engaged in other activities and not meditating. When one meditates one is not generally concentrating (on other things).

So I would allow a monk to meditate during a rest (meditation is restful) but I would not allow a monk/spell caster to concentrate on a spell while meditating (unless there is a rule to the contrary - I don't have my books with me).

So if anything I would say that supports my position - resting and meditating are compatible. Concentrating during meditation or resting is not.

 

[zaratan]

I think that is a totally different point. Meditation may well improve concentration but it improves concentration when one is engaged in other activities and not meditating. When one meditates one is not generally concentrating (on other things).

I see concentration in spell exactly as the level of concentration you get with mindfulness meditation = mind focus. This isn't streneous at all, and to prove, you can even fight, research, do acrobatics while you concentrate without any penalty. Is very different that concentrate in an Excel sheet, what is streneous and, while fighting, would give me desadvatange.

But I get your point.

 

[Mercule]

Just wanted to say that every time [MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] posts to this thread, it cracks me up as the most in-character, but meta thing.

 

[Caliburn101]

Twas the Long Rest of Warlock

Twas the long rest of Warlock, in Leomund's house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
Her rat-bag was hung on her black belt with care,
In hopes that a Hex target soon would be there.

The Orcs were nestled all snug in their beds,
While dreams of dead Paladins danced in their heads.
And their chief in his armour, and bloodstained cap,
Had just dashed out the brains of some villager chap.

When outside of the dungeon there arose such a clatter,
They sprang from the beds to see what was the matter.
Away to the entrance they ran like a flash,
Their great axes raised and ready to slash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of mid-day to a figure below.
Then, what did their sharp orcish eyes see,
But a rat-bagged warlock, with a smile full of glee.

"Now, Nibbler! now, Wriggler! now, Pox and Claw!
On, Squeeker! On, Scamper! on, Gorger and Gore!
To the top of the bag! Give me Hexery power!
Now die! spell away, SLAY THE ORCISH SHOWER!"

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
Met with rat-fuelled hexery, oh how did they die.
So upped, did the damage dice do the job fast,
Without even the need for one Eldritch Blast...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Nope. Not at all.

In 4E it was part of their base abilities, like the ranger's hunter's mark. I assume that the idea of the hex bag o rats comes from there..

But nowadays it's just one spell that they can choose. In fact I never paid any attention to that spell until I saw all these discussions. The Warlock I DM'd also didn't even look at it. And he was fine.

It's just a spell like any other. Very useful, yes, but just another spell.

You think hexbagorats is necessary, give it free to everyone at your table and be done with it.

Who thinks it's necessary?