D&D 5E Warlock in party with Quasit breaking story

[Decorayah]

Quasits can't fly, but everything you've said is true of the imp familiar, so I'm assuming that's what you meant.

For starters, familiars do make excellent scouts. That said, invisibility isn't a "No one can ever detect me" card. It simply allows you to hide without needing something to hide behind. Which means that it still requires a stealth check (unless the DM rules otherwise, of course) to go unnoticed. It's not magically silenced, after all.

If the enemy detects it, it can be resummoned with a short ritual right? Well, yes, but unless the creatures in the castle are mindless zombies or something, they might get suspicious that an invisible devil was flying around their castle. Now the guard patrols are increased and on high alert.

Time pressure can also be useful here. Perhaps an ally of the PCs' is to be executed in a few hours. Sure, they can send the imp to scout the castle, but by the time the imp is done it will be too late to mount a rescue.

As for turning into a centipede to crawl through locks, you're the DM. You're well within your rights to rule that the imp can only turn into a bigger (12 inch) centipede, which is too large to fit through most locks (but may be small enough to crawl under some doors).

Finally, and most importantly, keep in mind that this a feature that the player selected at the cost of other features. It's fine to limit it, but be careful not to limit it to the brink of being useless, because the player is likely to get (in my opinion, justifiably) upset. You don't have to let the imp get away with murder, but let him be useful and scout at least some of the enemy positions. It's a matter of feeling out the right balance. Don't be so concerned about your story that you forget to keep the players' fun in mind. It's okay (and generally expected) for the story to change and evolve during play.

They can't fly but can turn into a bat which has the same effect. Are you sure an invisible creature still needs to make a stealth check to not get detected? Then what's the difference between it not being invisible and being invisible. Shouldn't invisibility make you undetectable unless you make like a noise or there is a smell or something? Should it like add some number to it's stealth rolls or?

Yes if it gets caught obviously I make the creatures suspicious and send patrols, increase guards etc. Problem is he can make the quasit disappear in an instant. So if it fails a check or gets detected most of the time it's instantly gone and a lot of guards would realistically go "oh am I just seeing things? Bah". Sure if they are knowledgeable in magic and know what quasits are they will know what's up but... a very small portion of guards are.

I don't want to make it useless of course. I just want to be able to outsmart it at least in some more important story developments. My only goal is to make things interesting and I find that players knowing too much all the time accomplishes exactly the opposite - makes things boring and predictable.

The time pressure is a good idea

 

[UnknownDyson]

Also, keep in mind that the Quasit is a demon. Variant: Familiar: The quasit can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a Telepathic Bond with its willing master. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the quasit senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. While the quasit is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the quasit's Magic Resistance trait. At any time and for any reason, the quasit can end its service as a familiar, ending the Telepathic Bond. An imp is a minor devil and requires a contract for service, demons do what they want. So if the PC treats the quasit like a slave, the quasit could potentially be biding it's time to betray the PC.

 

[Decorayah]

That's one of the things you need to deal with when you've got a PotC warlock in the party. Others have put in good ideas about how this should not be a sure-fire 'know everything' button but you need to still respect the player's capabilities. Heck, have someone in the dungeon send their own invisible familiar out to find the party and see how they like it (I've done this a couple of times).

Haha will do that

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yeah I do that but I can't do it at all times. Most of the time in the story the party is out exploring different islands that are unrelated. For most of the places they visit there is little reason to have magic defenses up. Basically the quasit turns a:

"Oh a mysterious castle. Wonder what's inside? Is it deserted? Is there anything creepy going on? Let's do a perilous attempt at finding out and maybe we'll find interesting treasure?

into

"Oh a mysterious castle. Give me a moment. Ok it has 12 guards. They seem to be skeletons. They aren't heavily armored so probably not that strong. There is a big chamber. Inside there is a bigger skeleton and some zombies. There is a chest behind it. I think we should be fine going in."

In my opinion the first one is more interesting.

That's the kind of scenario where that kind of thing should work (mindless undead). I'm the other hand, if the castle's defenders are orcs, they should have a chance to notice the imp. If they do, it should make invading the castle harder, because the defenders know that someone is coming and are on high alert. They call in reinforcements, consolidate patrols to make more dangerous encounters, set traps in areas where it might be impractical for day to day operations, and so on.

As such, scouting becomes a risk/reward decision rather than SOP.

 

[Decorayah]

Also, keep in mind that the Quasit is a demon. Variant: Familiar: The quasit can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a Telepathic Bond with its willing master. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the quasit senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. While the quasit is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the quasit's Magic Resistance trait. At any time and for any reason, the quasit can end its service as a familiar, ending the Telepathic Bond. An imp is a minor devil and requires a contract for service, demons do what they want. So if the PC treats the quasit like a slave, the quasit could potentially be biding it's time to betray the PC.

I said exactly that to him some time ago. Here's the response: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Warlock#toc_8 . Basically a PoTC warlock can use the spell "find familiar" to create a quasit that is not actually a quasit (it's a fey) and does exactly what he's told (exactly as in the description of Find Familiar).

 

[Fanaelialae]

They can't fly but can turn into a bat which has the same effect. Are you sure an invisible creature still needs to make a stealth check to not get detected? Then what's the difference between it not being invisible and being invisible. Shouldn't invisibility make you undetectable unless you make like a noise or there is a smell or something? Should it like add some number to it's stealth rolls or?

Yes if it gets caught obviously I make the creatures suspicious and send patrols, increase guards etc. Problem is he can make the quasit disappear in an instant. So if it fails a check or gets detected most of the time it's instantly gone and a lot of guards would realistically go "oh am I just seeing things? Bah". Sure if they are knowledgeable in magic and know what quasits are they will know what's up but... a very small portion of guards are.

I don't want to make it useless of course. I just want to be able to outsmart it at least in some more important story developments. My only goal is to make things interesting and I find that players knowing too much all the time accomplishes exactly the opposite - makes things boring and predictable.

The time pressure is a good idea

100% certain that (unless DM rules otherwise) invisibility just allows you to hide without requiring cover. You're welcome to rule otherwise, but if you do you're making it stronger than the baseline and need to keep that in mind.

As for spotting the familiar, if they see a weird creature (particularly if it turns invisible) the defenders should realize something unusual is going on and go on high alert.

 

[UnknownDyson]

I said exactly that to him some time ago. Here's the response: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Warlock#toc_8 . Basically a PoTC warlock can use the spell "find familiar" to create a quasit that is not actually a quasit (it's a fey) and does exactly what he's told (exactly as in the description of Find Familiar).

While the DM is certainly free to do that in his or her campaign, I would argue that the dm isn't using the rules as intended in this circumstance. Generally,quasits, pseudodragons, and imps are special familiars that players can't even gain access to unless they are pact of the chain warlocks. You can alter the nature of normal familars as you choose but when you select one of the special familiars they are just that special. And you have to except the special conditions that come with that. Additionally, setting the rules aside, you can't just turn demons into fey, their lore is that they are like a planar cancer. It just wouldn't work, if that was an option the gods would have went into the abyss a long time ago and turned everything into saytrs and gnomes.

 

[iserith]

I don't want to penalize the warlock. On the contrary - I want to not limit his ability and find a way to keep the story going. Problem is the story gets more predictable and boring because of this ability. Basically he makes the campaign worse for both himself and everyone else in a completely legal way. That's what I want to stop.

The "win conditions," if you will, of D&D are stated in the Basic Rules, page 2:

"There’s no winning and losing in the Dungeons & Dragons game—at least, not the way those terms are usually understood. Together, the DM and the players create an exciting story of bold adventurers who confront deadly perils. Sometimes an adventurer might come to a grisly end, torn apart by ferocious monsters or done in by a nefarious villain. Even so, the other adventurers can search for powerful magic to revive their fallen comrade, or the player might choose to create a new character to carry on. The group might fail to complete an adventure successfully, but if everyone had a good time and created a memorable story, they all win."

To the extent your group buys into the above statement, even the "completely legal" use of a class feature (or whatever) must past the test of whether that choice makes the game fun for everyone and helps create an exciting memorable story. There is never a guarantee that the choice to use a game option is going to result in fun or an exciting story. To that end, you may want to consider an open, honest, and non-confrontational discussion with the group as a whole to express your concern and gather their opinions, if you have not already done so.

In preparation for that discussion, consider the possibility that you are the only one with the problem. Because while you say that the campaign is made "worse for both himself and everyone else," you also say "...our party is very pragmatic and doesn't do anything like that. They just sit around and wait for as much information as possible. It honestly gets boring at a point but they go on." Chiefly, your concerns appear to be centered around presenting the story you want and including surprises and suspense. Personally, I don't think that should be your concern as DM, but to each their own. If surprises were desirable, the players wouldn't be trying to prepare for or avoid them. Suspense can also be achieved in other ways. And if knowing something in advance is defeating the challenge you prepared, then what you have there is a "gotcha," which is not a real challenge at all. In my view, it's best to learn to design away from "gotchas" anyway, so if that's what you're doing, it's good you're realizing it's not viable now. Knowing things should rightly give the PCs an edge, but it's not the end of the challenge (or at least shouldn't be).

If you come away from that discussion alone in your feelings about the familiar, then it may be time to reassess your goals and priorities as DM. And that's good fodder for another thread.

 

[schnee]

Yeah, Warlock familiars are different from the Wizard spell, they are more powerful, actually intelligent, and have some baggage because of that.

Also, are you charging the 10gp for casting the spell each time?

 

[Krachek]

You can have a lot of fun when describing the area from the familiar point of view!
Imp and Quasit are fiend, they might just thinking for gold, easy kill or sadistic tricks.
Try to make a voice when the Imp make its report.