D&D (2024) Warlock -- initial analyses

Rogues have a few more choices. I think fighters should get a choice of 1 out of 2 manoeuvres linked to their fighting style at higher levels or something.
They do get more maneuvers. But they are tied to weapon mastery.

Level 9, they can add slow, sap, and a third thing I don't remember.

Also the more attacks they make, the more chances to apply the mastery. Push enemies together and Cleave for instance. Or Slow + Push + Push to keep an enemy away.
 

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Damn, still no option for ranged bladelocks. I've been wanting to make a bow wielding celestial bladelock for years.
Would a cosmetic reskin of Eldritch Blast not suffice? Something along the lines of "I conjure a bow of moonlight that fires falling stars, and it vanishes between volleys." Because the problem with a Bowlock is that it's very hard to not just make it strictly better or worse than the Eldritch Blast package.
 

Damn, still no option for ranged bladelocks. I've been wanting to make a bow wielding celestial bladelock for years.

So this is about old 5e rules, but I wanted to mention this. In a PbP game I am in, I made a multiclass bladelock/phantom rogue. It was all about the flavor for me*, and I assumed it would be a lot of skill monkeying, and some damage assist for the party.

I have been honestly shocked at how much damage the character does. Unfortunately, I don't think that this would apply for the straight ranged bladelock, since a lot of it is from the synergy with sneak attack, but still.

Big thanks to @Kobold Stew for going through this. I agree with the other poster who noted that Warlock is the most interesting class in 5e. For me, Warlocks are the most interesting spellcasters, and monks are the most interesting martials, but I'm kinda weird that way.


*I was looking for two classes that would allow a pact for a Reborn that had contact with the afterlife.
 

why do people like the warlock?

simple.
Bonus feats.

sorry, they are not feats, they are "invocations". But, they are feats without +1 ASI attached to it.
people love to build characters as the see fit.

and in addition to 6 feats that now everyone gets, warlocks get another 10 to play with.
yes, they might be more limited in selection, but it's certainly better that default: Shut up! Take it or leave it class features.

Looking at you; Mandatory Hunter's mark for rangers and all the "upgrades" for it.
 

Would a cosmetic reskin of Eldritch Blast not suffice? Something along the lines of "I conjure a bow of moonlight that fires falling stars, and it vanishes between volleys." Because the problem with a Bowlock is that it's very hard to not just make it strictly better or worse than the Eldritch Blast package.
I'm honestly just not a fan of reflavouring something as something else which already exists in the game. I'd prefer to use the rules for a bow. Not just cast spells and pretend I'm using a bow.

There are a lot of situations I enjoy reflavouring in. This isn't one of them though.
 

I'm honestly just not a fan of reflavouring something as something else which already exists in the game. I'd prefer to use the rules for a bow. Not just cast spells and pretend I'm using a bow.

I actually think the rules might have you covered better than ever before.

You can be a celestial warlock, casting True Strike with a bow. You won't get extra attack, but you'll be using your casting stat and (at level 6) adding your charisma twice to the radiant damage of every hit.

It could be supplemented with 1-3 levels dips in one of fighter, paladin, ranger, or rogue depending on what aspects you want to emphasize (all but rogue would give you longbow or heavy crossbow proficiency).
You wouldn't need the heavy invocation investment for Pact of the Blade, which means you can have the flexibility of rituals and/or a cool pet.

At level 5 you could cast Levitate on yourself ALL THE TIME to stay out of reach.

It wouldn't be hyper-optimized, but I think it would be fun.
 
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I actually think the rules might have you covered better than ever before.

You can be a celestial warlock, casting True Strike with a bow. You won't get extra attack, but you'll be using your casting stat and (at level 6) adding your charisma twice to the radiant damage of every hit.
This is an interesting build path to explore because it makes you ask, "Do I even need Blade Pact?" Blade Pact gets you weapon proficiency, weapon attacks with Cha, alternative damage types, and access to further invocations. But how many of those apply to a Celestial Warlock using True Strike with a bow?

Weapon proficiency is tricky. Blade Pact says it can conjure a melee weapon or bond a magic weapon. The "melee" qualifier is not repeated for the second clause, so it's unclear if it's assumed to still apply or if you can bond an enchanted longbow. However, Warlocks do get shortbow and light crossbow proficiency, so if we say you stick with those it isn't required.

As for the rest, well, most of them are redundant. True Strike gets you attacks with Cha and Radiant weapon damage, and if you're going this route you're not planning to take the other invocations for extra attacks. So that frees up a lot of invocations for other things, like maybe the Chain Pact route for a more combat oriented familiar.

Let's sketch out some numbers. At 8th level, a traditional Eldritch Blast build or Bladelock using a versatile weapon are making two attacks for a total of 2d10+10 damage, or about 21 damage if both hit. A Celestial Warlock using True Strike with a light crossbow is doing 1d8+1d6+15, or about 23 damage. Really close, though the damage curve is a bit different between one attack and two.

The big advantage of True Strike over Blade Pact is it's costing fewer invocations, and that's not nothing since both the Imp and Sphinx of Wonder are doing an average of 12 damage on a hit. The big advantage of the Blade Pact route for multiple attacks is that it scales better with things like Hex that add damage per hit.

But how's it look at 12th level when EB and Blade Pact are making three attacks? That's 3d10+15 vs 1d8+2d6+15, or on average 31.5 vs 26.5 damage. True Strike with a weapon is falling pretty solidly behind, and the numbers are even worse if you throw in Hex. The advantage over EB is that you're using a weapon, and magic weapons are often stronger than a Rod of the Pact Keeper. The advantage over Blade Pact is that you're devoting far fewer invocations, and it really depends what use you put those to.

So I think we get back to my previous assessment. A Celestial Warlock using True Strike is about on par from 6th-11th level and falls behind a bit once it's competing with three attacks. But if you're investing those freed up invocations wisely, or don't expect the campaign to spend much time in those higher level brackets, it's not a bad character idea.
 

This is helpful - thanks. Absolutely, if it's a high-level game your damage will lag using True Strike. But I think for most games, especially if you're actually playing through the levels, it's viable.

If Blade Pact has the wording you suggest, it would seem an enchanted short bow is a viable choice.
 

Honestly really hoping we get a draconic warlock this time around. Their refusal to add one in 5e so far has been a real head scratcher.

Ideally based around becoming more dragon-like, due to the draconic sorcerer abandoning that approach to become a dragon summoner.
 

Not needing to choose a patron until level 3 makes absolutely no sense to me.

The whole defining characteristic of being a warlock is that you make a pact with an otherworldly being, or they make an involuntary pact with you. In some way or another, a connection between the PC and the patron needs to happen for the warlock/warlock class to exist. Because the connection is how you get your powers.

Without it, you're just a wanna-be spell caster.

Think about it. Under the 2024 rules, all you have to do is say "I wanna be a warlock" and poof the universe grants you the ability to cast eldritch blast.

Maybe it's not the "universe" that grants the PC the ability...but under the 2024 rules, it's certainly not a patron either.... So how do you exactly get it? (From an in-world perspective, not a meta perspective)
 

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