D&D 5E Warlock trading hit dice/hit points for spell slots?

[Raduin711]

So, thematically, the Warlock is a caster who has made some kind of bargain for their magic. But the "cost" aspect of the class is mostly left to the DM to decide and act on, or not act on. Maybe your patron asks you to do little side quests or something, which is fine, but there isn't any mechanical benefit for doing them nor is there a consequence for ignoring them (beyond passing up a role-playing opportunity.)

This all sounds like I am advocating some kind of paladin-like behavioral stipulation for the warlock, but I don't think that is a good idea, and I would rather not get into that topic here. I only bring it up because I feel like it shows how mechanically, the warlock kind of fails to live up to its purpose as the magic-from-a-bargain class. In fact they seem to specialize in getting free stuff, which is decidedly un-bargain-like.

So my thought was to simply give the warlock a new ability that allows them to sacrifice hit dice to their patron in exchange for spell slots. In essence they are giving their patron a portion of their life force in exchange for more power. I think putting a limit on the number of transactions they are allowed in a day would be necessary, maybe something like 1 transaction per 5 levels.

I am also of the opinion that the Warlock is perhaps a little underpowered and giving them this ability wouldn't unduly unbalance the class.

Just kind of spitballing, here, wondering what you folks think.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Like Jedi and other Force-users expending Vitality in SW d20, I always thought this idea had potential. Just Saturday we revisited the idea. But not just for Warlocks, for all spellcasters. All spells cost one HP per spell level to cast.

I think if you want to try it out, I would be interested to know how it works. I think it would feel different but work well.

 

[Minigiant]

I kinda feel like this is more a sorcerer thing. Their blood is magical and they could "deoxygenate" or manadrain their blood to recharge themselves.

So warlocks it wouldn't be a cost. The patron doesn't want the warlock dead. They wouldn't get their warlocks powers that harm themselves. It would have to be the warlock either jumping the gun to stronger magic they can't handle.because they are already impatient. Or a patron stepping in to secure their investment. I can't even see the most evil or weird patrons actively letting their patrons harm themselves useless they just want sacrifices.

Now warlock draining their willing ally's HD or HP? I could see that.

 

[Raduin711]

So warlocks it wouldn't be a cost. The patron doesn't want the warlock dead. They wouldn't get their warlocks powers that harm themselves. It would have to be the warlock either jumping the gun to stronger magic they can't handle.because they are already impatient. Or a patron stepping in to secure their investment. I can't even see the most evil or weird patrons actively letting their patrons harm themselves useless they just want sacrifices.

We probably see warlocks a lot differently, then. GOO patrons I would imagine would be monstrously indifferent to the fate of their warlocks (I mean, that's kind of the point of lovecraft-inspired stuff) and the same goes for the fickle fey. Evil patrons, well, not every warlock is going to be instrumental to their designs, and may even find pleasure in seeing if their pet manages to hang themself with all the rope they've been given. As for celestial warlocks, I think this concept highlights the difference between a celestial warlock and a cleric: A cleric derives power from truehearted belief, where the warlock is a transaction. Sure, an angel has no interest in seeing their warlock die, far from it, but would love to inspire the mortal to grand, heroic acts of self-sacrifice, especially if the warlock is of neutral or evil alignment.
Also this idea assumes that the life force being offered to the patron is of some use to them. It may even be the whole point of the warlock pact. Perhaps this can be used to pave their way to eventual demigodhood, or in some divine project, like helping in the war between heaven and hell, or opening a gate to the prime material plane, or maybe they collect it and put it on a shelf in an hourglass like some knicknack.

 

[Minigiant]

We probably see warlocks a lot differently, then. GOO patrons I would imagine would be monstrously indifferent to the fate of their warlocks (I mean, that's kind of the point of lovecraft-inspired stuff) and the same goes for the fickle fey. Evil patrons, well, not every warlock is going to be instrumental to their designs, and may even find pleasure in seeing if their pet manages to hang themself with all the rope they've been given. As for celestial warlocks, I think this concept highlights the difference between a celestial warlock and a cleric: A cleric derives power from truehearted belief, where the warlock is a transaction. Sure, an angel has no interest in seeing their warlock die, far from it, but would love to inspire the mortal to grand, heroic acts of self-sacrifice, especially if the warlock is of neutral or evil alignment.
Also this idea assumes that the life force being offered to the patron is of some use to them. It may even be the whole point of the warlock pact. Perhaps this can be used to pave their way to eventual demigodhood, or in some divine project, like helping in the war between heaven and hell, or opening a gate to the prime material plane, or maybe they collect it and put it on a shelf in an hourglass like some knicknack.

Oh I can see a devil, GOO, or archfey giving a person a noon that ultimately harms or kills them.

I just don't see it as something they would give a full fledged warlock willy nilly. Not unless it was part of some great plan. And even then it would be rare.

3e had some prc called the Brimfire Warlock or something. That warlock burned health to blast harder. But to me that is that is a rarity where a patron blatantly need firepower.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think I would rather the warlock could get a temporary spell slot if he/she uses his/her pact implement to kill/sacrifice something to his/her patron (tome would be by using a cantrip granted by the tome) with the catch that the victim must have a CR score equal to or higher than the spell level the warlock is currently casting at (no bags of rats or killing off commoners). You could pound the victim with your better powers, but you try to finish it off with your implement.

That is difficult enough that I can't see anyone getting a lot of slots that way.

Edit: If something like this were possible, I would have the warlock automatically know once combat began if something he/she was attacking was a viable candidate for sacrifice.

 

[Prakriti]

So my thought was to simply give the warlock a new ability that allows them to sacrifice hit dice to their patron in exchange for spell slots.

This is a signature ability of Warlocks in World of Warcraft. They can convert hit points into mana with an ability called Life Tap.

You could definitely include the same ability in D&D, but I'm sure you would have people saying that you were "copying" WoW.

 

[ko6ux]

This is a signature ability of Warlocks in World of Warcraft. They can convert hit points into mana with an ability called Life Tap.

You could definitely include the same ability in D&D, but I'm sure you would have people saying that you were "copying" WoW.

This was part of the necromancer class in EverQuest before WoW existed, so people could say that WoW "copied" it from somewhere else.

Draining one's life in exchange for magical power is iconic enough in fiction,

Doesn't Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter class (which is basically part warlock anyway) use something like this mechanically?

 

[Tonguez]

Anyone read Tim Powers On Stranger Tides?

Magic in that setting needs blood - either ones own or someone elses. Voodoo bocors sacrifice chickens, other spellcasters bite their own lips etc And such use of blood is really important for the story.

Anyway I liked the idea of Warlocks sacrificing blood - either their own or a victims - to empower themselves.

 

[Prakriti]

Anyway I liked the idea of Warlocks sacrificing blood - either their own or a victims - to empower themselves.

...and this is why the Warlock should have been relegated to the DMG along with the Death Cleric. If "sacrificing the blood of their victims" is thematically appropriate to the class, then it really has no business adventuring alongside the other classes.