Warlocks and Caster Levels...

Pbartender

First Post
I've through the entire Complete Arcane and maybe I'm just missing, but...

How do you determine a Warlock's effective 'caster level'?

I'm just a little confused as to how to figure out if a particular Warlock qualifies for a Prestige Class, or what Warlock abilities he gets when he gains "+1 spellcaster level" from the PrC.

Nearest I can figure, you just add up all the caster levels, and then cross-reference that with the Warlock chart to figure out how many incantations he should have. Can anyone verify this?
 

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As far as I know, his Caster Level for meeting prerequisites is based solely on his Caster Level for his Invocations- that is, generally equal to his caster level. Similarly, any Prestige Class that grants +1 spellcasting level per level of the Prestige Class stacks with his class level for determining his number of Invocations and the strength of said Invocations. As far as I can see, his Eldritch Blast does NOT increase with PrC's, as it goes off of a completely different caster level than his Invocations.
 

Casterlevels gained through prestige classes do very well increase eldritch blast damage (see Complete Arcane p.18 - Warlocks and Prestige Classes). Otherwise it would be just useless for warlocks to aim for any prestige class.
 

Quez The Lame said:
Casterlevels gained through prestige classes do very well increase eldritch blast damage (see Complete Arcane p.18 - Warlocks and Prestige Classes). Otherwise it would be just useless for warlocks to aim for any prestige class.
Yeah. He doesn't gain that much from most PrCls as is. Losing eldritch blast progression would make multiclassing pretty pointless unless he takes just a level or three.
 

Pbartender said:
How do you determine a Warlock's effective 'caster level'?

Warlock class level + modifiers (i.e. PrC, feats, magic items, whatever modifies the caster level for the warlock's spell-like abilities).

Nearest I can figure, you just add up all the caster levels, and then cross-reference that with the Warlock chart to figure out how many incantations he should have. Can anyone verify this?

It works just like a sorcerer's spells known, but that's not the same as caster level. Caster level can be different.

The Warlock's effective casting ability is improved by PrC just like a sorcerer's is.


Also, Eldritch Blast should work in the same way as the invocations when it comes to caster level... altho the rules are kinda dodgy there... saying it is not an invocation but explaining caster level only under the invocation headline. ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

Multiclassing, even going for prestige classes that increase caster levels, seems not to be very attractive at all for warlocks.
But taking two or three levels of marshal (Miniatures Handbook) could be quite attractive IMHO. The marshal makes great use of the warlocks high charisma given his skills and minor auras, gives nice weapon proficiency and saves, and boosts HP. But (top of all) a warlock who has such tremendous leading skills would be an impressing appearance and a great character to play (IMHO again).
 


Some examples using Warlock with prestige classes (long)

Quez The Lame said:
Multiclassing, even going for prestige classes that increase caster levels, seems not to be very attractive at all for warlocks.
But taking two or three levels of marshal (Miniatures Handbook) could be quite attractive IMHO. The marshal makes great use of the warlocks high charisma given his skills and minor auras, gives nice weapon proficiency and saves, and boosts HP. But (top of all) a warlock who has such tremendous leading skills would be an impressing appearance and a great character to play (IMHO again).



Okay long response here. This is not just for the prior poster, but for everybody!



While marshal is definately nice, I'm disappointed that you think there is no benefit to a prestige class and caster level for warlocks!

True, if you take a prestige class, you don't get any of the abilities noted in special under table 1-1 in the complete arcane (page 8). You still get more incantations and improved eldrich blasts (page 18), as well as a chance to mix up your attack and ST options!

Now, before we continue, you're absolutely right if the requirements are casting x-level spells, and you're only a Warlock; you'll never qualify without some other class. But, as above, you could still use the +1 to existing arcane spellcasting class to Warlock if you did and wished to!

Anyway, you have to weigh the benefits of the PrC with the warlock build. I recommend you (re-)read the prestige class chapter again, starting with page 18 "Warlocks and Prestige Classes". Look at the Table 2-1, as well as the last paragraph of said earlier section.

But since examples speak louder than references, let me illustrate how I'm using prestige classes to my Warlock's potential:


I'm playing a Warlock with ten character levels currently. His nicely rolled stats and 2 points bumped into Charisma are S: 14 D:17 C:14 I:17 W:14 Ch:19. After adventuring and (player deliberately) dying, he now had access to Blood Magnus. So far, I have gained 7 levels of warlock, and 3 levels of Blood Magnus, nicely balancing both Fort and Will Saves. For Reflex saves, I boost it using the Dark One's Own Luck incantation. While not as powerful, the reflex saves are not as poor this way. And this isn't even counting my cloak of Cha or gloves of Dex! Oh, and since this PrC also uses d6 HD, I'm doing fine with 61 HP so far (-1 HP if I use the Homunculus option later).

Now, for (the first) twenty levels, I plan to finish at twelve levels of Warlock, and eight levels of Blood Magnus. This way, Not only can I create items with no needed spells (Imbue Item) with a ridiculously high UMD skill check, I also have "free" scribe scroll (scarification) and brew potion (blood draught) feats if I need to create scrolls or potions I would not normally have purchasing or "finesseing" access to! I only have to spend one feat to get craft wondorous items, and can focus other feats (should I wish to) on staff,wand, and/or rod options!
True, I have a limit of only six scroll scars and Blood Magnus+con mod blood draught potions for creating these items, but that's assuming nobody else will ever create the "normal" ones, PLUS what I can get from the normal campaign treasure and equipment access stuff. Trust me, needing nothing but your blood and skin to create a potion or scroll in a day is really useful!

Oh, and my warlock eldrich blast, caster level, and invocations so far would still "only" be 8d6, nineteen and 11 with up to 2 of them dark access!

Now, I could have felt free to do this in any other way (such as the minimum 5 levels of warlock ten BM, and 5 whatever to get the infusion and bloodwalk faster), but I was informed that we will be going epic, and I felt this balance gave me the best overall BAB and ST options before epic advancement. After L 20, I plan to complete the blood magnus and warlock levels (thus getting all the nifty warlock resistances and BM stuff like infusion [+2 CON] and bloodwalk-transport through bodies with a bloody exit option risking being stunned unless making a DC 15 Fort save [HAH!]).

Then, I plan on taking the CN character converted to CG and take 4 levels of Holy liberator for the anticipated +14 additional Divine grace bonus; and 6 levels of Wild Mage, or (unlikely since the big one is chaotic mind at level 6) stay CN in my career and go straight wild mage for 10 levels, finishing out my 40 lkevels.
Practised spellcaster feasts and an orange ioun stone are also planned to minimise my arcane caster level loss where that would work.


Hopefully, this will be enough for us to stop the "villians"--the L 40 evil and neutral party members our group played last time! ( BTW I finished up there with a 7Wiz/5Fatespinner/3Paragon Human/5Archmage/5Hierophant(GM permitted with Arcane Disciple feat)/7 Init of Sevenfold Veil/8 Loremaster)


Now, you could also have gone the route of alcoyte of the skin ten levels instead (+2 dex and con, +2 nat AC, poision, 10 fire and cold resist meaning you could choose different energy resistances for warlocks, glare attacks, 8d6 twice fire glare beams, summon fiend 1/day, DR 10/good), and added the "puny" invocations and spells when you were done of 5d6 eldrich blast and 6 invocations minimum.


Or if you're one of those melee combat warlocks, you could also have taken the weird but effective Green star adept (dr 10/adamantine, cast 6d6 eb and 10 invocations at the greater invocation level as a 17th level caster, +6 Str, +6 Nat armor, -3 Dex, slam attack for size damage times 1.5 str damage, darkvision and low light 60 feet, immune to poision; paralysis; death attacks; sneak attacks; necro effects; disease; stunning; and massive damage, "fast healing" like repair 1/hour and the potential to use UMD to make your own scrolls or wands of repair damage if nobody else can cast 'em). True, you fall to pieces if you hit 0 HP or less, but you still could live forever if careful (or brought back if not). A powerhouse warrior warlock also keeps the 3/4 BAB if they go that class, and is scary with a hideous blow attack whether it's a weapon or slam attack for 1.5 str damage to boot!


And I'm not even going to start with the effectiveness of a high charisma and the mindbender PrC!


So, up your dark secrets and blasting power, PLUS get a few complementary boosts.


I hope this was educational. Hope it wasn't too long!


I hope to see more Warlock posters soon!

I AM,
--the truthseeker
 
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