Warlock's Eldritch Blast?

[Thanee]

But it seems that we can generalise 'action' a little, to include such non-action sub-elements as 'travel the next five feet of a total move of 20 feet', or 'third iterative attack of a full attack'.

But your examples are about movement, and movement is explicitly mentioned as the exception in the definition of AoO.

That's how I'd read AoOs as well. Making a ranged attack as part of a full attack action is a non-action sub-element of an action, but it can provoke (under the 'attacking with a ranged weapon' definition.

That's an example (for an action, which provokes AoO), not a definition; as per the definition, non-actions cannot provoke AoO, since only actions (and movement) can.

Wouldn't it be more within the remainder of the rules to say, that these sub-elements of an action are also actions (in the same light the Disarm and Grapple maneuvers are listed as actions), with the action type: varies?

Anyways...

My inclination is to say no, and that's what I'd rule as DM.

But the above two quotes seem to contradict each other (because what you said above clearly means two AoO (one for the spellcasting, one for the ranged attack))... or were you saying, that you would house rule it, since you don't like how the rules work in your understanding?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Except that it doesn't really clarify this issue. That answer is regarding "volley" style spells, which do multiple effects/attacks as a single action (much like manyshot).

You are still making a ranged attack as part of casting the spell.

Seems clear to me.

"... makes all the ranged touch attacks the spell allows as part of that standard action...".

In my book, all includes one.

And it's a heck of a lot clearer than the arguments going on in this thread. So I'll stick with the FAQ.

 

[Abraxas]

Except that it doesn't really clarify this issue. That answer is regarding "volley" style spells, which do multiple effects/attacks as a single action (much like manyshot).

You are still making a ranged attack as part of casting the spell.

Well, it clarifies it for me.

Volley style spells don't always have multiple effects/attacks (scorching ray from a 5th level caster for example). The ranged attacks are made as part of the cast a spell action not as part of a separate attack or full attack action - a single action doesn't provoke more than one AoO.

YMMV

 

[Caliban]

Seems clear to me.

"... makes all the ranged touch attacks the spell allows as part of that standard action...".

In my book, all includes one.

And it's a heck of a lot clearer than the arguments going on in this thread. So I'll stick with the FAQ.

So? It's no different from Manyshot, you are making an attack with a ranged weapon using a standard action.

If you agree that attacking with a ranged weapon provokes (rather than using the Attack action to make a ranged weapon attack), then a ranged attack with a spell provokes just as making a ranged attack with manyshot provokes (unless you choose to rule that weaponlike spells aren't close enough weapons to count, which is a different debate).

Either way, the FAQ quote doesn't actually address the topic we are discussing. It does a good job of answering the question in the FAQ, but that's not we are talking about.

 

[Caliban]

Well, it clarifies it for me.

Volley style spells don't always have multiple effects/attacks (scorching ray from a 5th level caster for example). The ranged attacks are made as part of the cast a spell action not as part of a separate attack or full attack action - a single action doesn't provoke more than one AoO.

YMMV

Where does it state that a single action can't provoke more than one AoO?

If you drink a potion next to 6 enemies, all of them get an AoO.

If you move past 4 enemies, all of them (potentially) get an AoO.

You can only make one AoO per given opportunity, but I haven't seen anything that rules out certain actions providing more than one AoO opportunity (if they have different "non-action sub-elements" that can provoke, to use hypersmurf's phrase).

 

[Caliban]

OK, seems reasonable.

How about the fireball thing?

At the point you make a ranged touch attack roll with it, you provide an AoO opportunity.

Why does it do this? Why does attacking with a ranged weapon provoke an AoO in the first place? The rules say it's a distracting action, just like casting a spell is.

Casting a spell provokes an AoO, but you rules allow you to avoid that with a concentration check.

Attacking with a ranged weapon provokes an AoO, but you can't avoid it with a concentration check. Only certain prestige classes allow you to avoid provoking when you do so.

 

[Abraxas]

Sorry I wasn't crystal clear - Of course drinking a potion surrounded by 6 enemies can provoke 6 AoOs - thanks for pointing that out.

I think its pretty clear from the FAQ - Making the attacks is not an action, casting the spell is an action - Since only actions provoke AoOs, casting the spell is the only action that can provoke the AoO.

Unlike your group, this is how everyone I've gamed with plays it. If you don't think that's reasonable from the FAQ play however you want.

 

[Caliban]

Sorry I wasn't crystal clear - Of course drinking a potion surrounded by 6 enemies can provoke 6 AoOs - thanks for pointing that out.

I think its pretty clear from the FAQ - Making the attacks is not an action, casting the spell is an action - Since only actions provoke AoOs, casting the spell is the only action that can provoke the AoO.

Unlike your group, this is how everyone I've gamed with plays it. If you don't think that's reasonable from the FAQ play however you want.

So in your group, Manyshot doesn't provoke? Or doing a full attack with a ranged weapon?

That's Thanee's reasoning, but she has effectively house ruled Manyshot so that it provokes, and has declared the PHB to be in error about the Full Attack action (in spite of it being unchanged since 3.0 was first introduced).

That's why I don't think that line of reasoning is correct: it requires you to make changes in other parts of the rules to make it work.

 

[Abraxas]

Are you saying Manyshot and a Full Attack with a Ranged Weapon as written don't provoke AoOs?

 

[Caliban]

Are you saying Manyshot and a Full Attack with a Ranged Weapon as written don't provoke AoOs?

Look it up. The table is on page 141 of the PHB.

Only the Standard Attack (ranged) Action is listed as provoking an AoO.

The Full Attack Action does not provoke an AoO. (Thanee says that this is an error in the rules).

Manyshot is a Standard Action, not a Standard Attack (ranged) action. (Thanee says it should, it's just not on the table, in spite of the fact that feats that provoke an AoO generally state this in their text).

If the act of making an attack with a ranged weapon is not what provokes, then that is the way the rules read.