Warlocks not warlockey anymore

[hargert]

I have loved the 3.5 Warlock from the moment it was released but something has been bugging me that I could not quite put my finger on. I think I have figured it out at last. In 3.5 the warlock is an endless fountain of magic, he never runs out and has full access to all of his powers. Now however he is just like wizards or everyone else in the fact that he gets the same daily/encounter/at will powers like everyone else. Also from the D&D xp it looks like the mixing invocations with eldritch blast seems to be gone as well. My question is does a direct pact and some wonky curses make the warlock feel like the Warlock of old? I hope I am wrong and once we see the PHB and what options are available it will click again to the great class that people liked enough to make him core.

Harg

 

[NaturalZero]

Except now he still has the same number of at-will abilities with extra per-encounter and per-day abilities on top. The warlock didnt loose anything, he actually gained more.

 

[frankthedm]

The BIG problem is if ALL the warlock's abilities are usable every round, that means they have to be balanced for every round use. This way the warlock gets to have powers that are too strong foe every round usage, adding in some variety in his combat options. Spaming summons and Walls every round would really be a problem in 4E, so some powers have to be once a battle or once a day.

 

[hargert]

I get the game balance part of it, but then what makes a Warlock? Is he just a single target hitting wizard with slightly better armor? What is his "thing" that makes him stand out and make people want to play one?

 

[jaelis]

Except now he still has the same number of at-will abilities with extra per-encounter and per-day abilities on top. The warlock didnt loose anything, he actually gained more.

I think the concern is not that the warlock lost anything, its that everyone else stole his schtick. In 3.5, the warlock was the only class that could use his powers at will, and now everyone can. So what make the warlock special now?

We'll have to see, but the obvious answer is that the warlock is a striker while the wizard is a controller, so the warlock will do more damage more reliably, but have less non-damaging options.

If that does turn out to be the heart of it, then I agree the warlock isn't nearly as special any more... he would just perform sort of like a damage-focussed wizard.

 

[Surgoshan]

I've noticed one neat thing, the warlock pushes people around like mad. Isn't he the one with a power that, on a hit, slides someone three spaces and keeps sliding them every turn until they save? And I think a lot of his powers are like that. The wizard raises fog and throws magic missiles, the warlock is a telekinetic bowling ball.

 

[hargert]

Thanks jaelis that sums up what I was thinking in a nutshell. I do have high hopes that they managed to give the Warlock some great stuff that will let them stand out from everyone else and not just a single target hitting wizard.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

I think the concern is not that the warlock lost anything, its that everyone else stole his schtick. In 3.5, the warlock was the only class that could use his powers at will, and now everyone can. So what make the warlock special now?

We'll have to see, but the obvious answer is that the warlock is a striker while the wizard is a controller, so the warlock will do more damage more reliably, but have less non-damaging options.

If that does turn out to be the heart of it, then I agree the warlock isn't nearly as special any more... he would just perform sort of like a damage-focussed wizard.

I'd say it's the flavor of the class that makes it unique. They do damage, but they also do a lot of secondary effects-forced movement, penalties, etc.

As to your original point- there were other classes that did at will stuff in 3.5 too- Dragonfire Adept for one.

 

[VBMEW-01]

I think a lot of the old blast-altering abilities could probably be feated if they aren't already in the PH (which seems at least possible).

I loved the 3E Warlock and think it set the stage for everything that has come since. I believe that the pacts will add a lot of the flavor that seems to be missing (seeing as we haven't seen much on those yet) and hope that future powers build on this theme.

I like that they are grouped right (as per role), and see them out-shining the Wizard in many fights where single hits outshine massive AoEs. What really intrigues me here (though it is off-topic) is how our Sorcerer works into that separation dynamic.

I think the Warlock is a winner now, and less of a worry for the DM, because he is at least more obviously balanced with everyone else now.

 

[hargert]

I dont think balance was ever the Warlocks issue in 3.5 if anything he is underpowered. People just see at will magic and wet themselves. I think we will just have to wait until June or if they put up a piece on them to tell for sure. Only 70 some days more to go.