D&D General Warlocks' patrons vs. Paladin Oaths and Cleric Deities

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes he does. The very first thing every fighter in the setting learns is a fighting style and second wind. None of them can learn action surge before he learns those two things, and all of them MUST learn action surge as their very next thing they improve with. Then all of them get their subclass after they learn those three things. Every battle master learns exactly 3 maneuvers. Not one, not five, but three, and only after learning action surge and second wind. If he wants a feat or ability score increase, he's out of luck until the level after he gains his subclass. Then once he has his feat, the very next thing that every fighter gets is an extra attack. And so on.

Do they all pick the same feats and fighting styles? No, but they all get a feat/ability increase and a fighting style in the same progression as every other fighter.

But do they know they have the same level? And do these abilities have in-game names? Is the Fighter literally saying I am taking my "Action Surge" or "Second Wind"? If not, how can they be sure that this particularly effective series of attacks was an action surge and not a critical attack or just a good damage roll? How would they distinguish a failed attack with an action surge from not having action surge in the first place?
How do two people that both know how to use the bow know that one has the Archery fighting style and the other doesn't?
They probably don't even know their exact dexterity (or that numerous of their abilities are all guided by one exact attribute that the game calls dexterity.)

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So I don't think it is that weird that the features are acquired in certain order. It might be a tad harder to explain for mundane classes, but even with things like martial arts there tends to be more beginner techniques you need to learn before more advanced ones etc. And of course with magical classes the diegetics can be what we decide, so the metaphysics of the world simply can be that these things must be acquired in specific order.

And this sort of structure can be good for lending the world some rigour. The GM can use this scaffolding as an aid for when having to improvise what capabilities an NPC might have and the PCs can deduce things about the capabilities of their foes.

 

[GobHag]

You only think that because (a) your own experience is limited and (b) since the article gained its pernicious influence people have felt pressured to conform to the stereotypes it presented.

Whist any attempt to categorise players is going to be misleading, a system in which you rate a mix of preferences on a sliding scale is going to do less damage.

Why can't you accept that I read the article, read the Neotrad/OC section and realized of my own volition that it speaks to my experiences and what I like.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why can't you accept that I read the article, read the Neotrad/OC section and realized of my own volition that it speaks to my experiences and what I like.

It may match your experiences, that’s not the issue. The issue is it pretends match everyone’s experiences.

 

[GobHag]

It's the whole schema of terminology, not the one term, that has proved so damaging to the RPG scene.

But if you want a definition, here is this: there is no "it". "It" does not exist. People do not fit into neat little boxes, there are just thousands of individuals all with their own unique preferences.

Communities exist, marketing exists, audiences exist. Complete atomization is no different than complete homogeneity and wouldn't have lead to the creation of other type of games than houseruled DnD from ever existing.

 

[GobHag]

It may match your experiences, that’s not the issue. The issue is it pretends match everyone’s experiences.

So it's wrong to categorize experiences and preferences? If that was any kind of issue then the OSR movement wouldn't have existed.

I'm not the one who first used the term you are up in arms over me having mentioned. I'll take this deflection as acceptance that simply asking for said term to be defined in plain English without quoting the blog post is a very high bar.

Neotrad culture is grouping of playstyles where the thing that matters most is fulfilling the character fantasy that the player chose, usually through plot and story but also through gameplay experiences. The thing that matters most in this culture is the PCs themselves over things such as verisimilitude or even challenge.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So it's wrong to categorize experiences and preferences

Yes. For an example of why, something you regularly see on this forum (which is more broad minded than most) is this: “soandso says they do X. Acording to holy scripture that means they a pseudonanagonagon, so they must also do Y and Z”.

Silo yourself as much as you like, but don’t you dare try and silo anyone else.

 

[tetrasodium]

So it's wrong to categorize experiences and preferences? If that was any kind of issue then the OSR movement wouldn't have existed.


Neotrad culture is grouping of playstyles where the thing that matters most is fulfilling the character fantasy that the player chose, usually through plot and story but also through gameplay experiences. The thing that matters most in this culture is the PCs themselves over things such as verisimilitude or even challenge.

I covered this before and have no idea why you are quoting that post asking for a definitionof a single term thrown out by another poster by describing "a grouping of play styles" so broad that it can't even be narrowed down to a single definable thing.

You kinda proved the point. I don't run a grouping of campaigns at my single table. I run a single campaign one single session at a time.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

the thing that matters most

In my experience the thing that matters most varies from day to day, depending on what kind of mood the player is in.

 

[Maxperson]

But do they know they have the same level? And do these abilities have in-game names? Is the Fighter literally saying I am taking my "Action Surge" or "Second Wind"? If not, how can they be sure that this particularly effective series of attacks was an action surge and not a critical attack or just a good damage roll? How would they distinguish a failed attack with an action surge from not having action surge in the first place?
How do two people that both know how to use the bow know that one has the Archery fighting style and the other doesn't?
They probably don't even know their exact dexterity (or that numerous of their abilities are all guided by one exact attribute that the game calls dexterity.)

The names don't matter. The abilities are identical and MUST be learned in the exact same order. Knowing about level is irrelevant. Being called action surge, moar attax!!!, or whatever doesn't change that it does the same thing for each fighter.