D&D 5E Warlocks & Patrons

[Icharbezol]

Maybe I just forgot, but what other PCs are there in the group? Any clerics or paladins? How do you normally handle their class features?

i don't generally get a whole lot of Cleric players saying "I want to worship X God to gain powers from them, but I want to defame the god's name and destroy their temples." Or Paladin players who say "I want to turn my back on the ideals that I derive my abilities from."

I'd take some issue with those character concepts at the time of the build, too.

Oathbreaker is a great option for the Paladin, if all of this were an outgrowth of continued play. The cleric, I'd be wondering why their god would allow them to continue to cast their spells much the same as I do this warlock concept.

Edit: Since this is Eberron we're talking about, I am just now having some second thoughts about the cleric thing though. I am trying to remember where I read this, but wasn't there something about some clerics of good gods actually being evil and only practicing their religion in name but not deed?

If if I am remembering that correctly, I may be rethinking how I approach this anyway.

 

[Krachek]

The Cleric and paladin worship willingly their Gods, and have a common trust relation with each other. At least for good character.

Warlock sign a pact, like a business man. He is locked with his pact, and don't necessary trust or love its patron. At the extreme he can hate its patron and regret the pact he sign. It can be great occasion for role play and DM intervention on the behalf of the patron. Warlock are charisma base character, with no int, str, dex, wis enough to have a honorable class. To have access to power they signed a pact. A great setup for role play.

 

[Icharbezol]

Undying patron as in Undying Light? Or The Undying from . . . SCAG? Is that basically undead-based powers, or just making the Warlock really hard to kill?

It's largely a lot of death-defying powers, as the Patron supposedly was once mortal but discovered the keys to everlasting life according to fluff and uses a lot of liches from a variety of settings. I've posited Mordaine the Flesh-Weaver as a possible patron but he nixed that with the "her" and "married" bits.

I like Vol the best myself for this because of setting integration, but the player is still set upon making the Patron an ancient and long-forgotten goddess with no real discussion about the setting, just a repeated "this is what I want" at the end of his statements.

So a daelkyr who represented herself as a goddess to the character is where I'll be going with this. no long lost or forgotten goddess, that part's a lie she's told him. And his railing against her is all part of her inscrutable plan, his Vengeance vow that leads him to massacre monstrosities furthers whatever insidious plot she is hatching with him as a tool.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

i don't generally get a whole lot of Cleric players saying "I want to worship X God to gain powers from them, but I want to defame the god's name and destroy their temples." Or Paladin players who say "I want to turn my back on the ideals that I derive my abilities from."

I'd take some issue with those character concepts at the time of the build, too.

Oathbreaker is a great option for the Paladin, if all of this were an outgrowth of continued play. The cleric, I'd be wondering why their god would allow them to continue to cast their spells much the same as I do this warlock concept.

Edit: Since this is Eberron we're talking about, I am just now having some second thoughts about the cleric thing though. I am trying to remember where I read this, but wasn't there something about some clerics of good gods actually being evil and only practicing their religion in name but not deed?

If if I am remembering that correctly, I may be rethinking how I approach this anyway.

It is possible to have a cleric of a religion of a different alignment to that religion, and even to go against its tenets. None of the Eberron religions apart from maybe the Undying Court actually have a being worshipped actually able to judge their worshipper.

However the point to bear in mind is that belief is still necessary. A cleric still believes in the religion, and that they are doing its work even when their actions would shock the majority of followers. Its probably due to the individual twisting the concepts, or taking one of the tenets to extremes and ignoring the others. Or they might be part of a splinter church that does so.

Has the character detailed his Oath of Vengeance? He should have at least stated what the evil he has sworn it against is. Was it against his patron?

Pretty much all of the potential patrons are able to appear to the character in dreams or visions, and generally willing to deceive in order to get what they want. If the player wants his character to think that he is married to a goddess, then the character can indeed think that, whether his patron is actually Vol, a demon trapped in the Silver Flame, a Quori or whatever else you might decide it actually is.

One last thought: you might be wanting to consider whether you are willing to allow the Oathbreaker Paladin for PC play. Even if the player isn't actively planning on becoming one for the synergy with Undying One Warlock, there is a chance that it may come up is the character starts ignoring their Oath.

 

[Icharbezol]

Hmmm. Talked to the player further, and the character concept he's put forth is one he originally made for another, anime-themed campaign setting with a different group but didn't get to play. That explains a lot to me.

I will have to to disabuse him of the anime connotations though, as that's not even near the theme I want to go with for this game. To each their own but I wouldn't touch an anime theme with a ten foot pole.

 

[Icharbezol]

The Cleric and paladin worship willingly their Gods, and have a common trust relation with each other. At least for good character.

Warlock sign a pact, like a business man. He is locked with his pact, and don't necessary trust or love its patron. At the extreme he can hate its patron and regret the pact he sign. It can be great occasion for role play and DM intervention on the behalf of the patron. Warlock are charisma base character, with no int, str, dex, wis enough to have a honorable class. To have access to power they signed a pact. A great setup for role play.

Paladins aren't exclusively tied to gods or alignments anymore, and I like that part quite a bit. Clerics maybe not so much in Eberron but in other worlds I'd agree with you. I've been trying to locate the info I mentioned up thread about clerics not always being the most devoted to all of their god's ideals in Eberron. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the 4e books I have out, guess I need to dig the original campaign setting book for 3.5e out of storage...

I do agree with you on the warlock being tied to their pact, though. They willingly entered into a contract with an otherworldly patron to gain power and I think for the purpose of play, that contract should be a focus of the character and be an important part in the campaign involving the warlock. And I do think that as a contract, if it wasn't going how the Patron wanted they could negate the connection that would allow a warlock's continued growth.

Of course there isn't anything stopping the warlock from seeking out another patron should their contract with the original patron end.

 

[Icharbezol]

It is possible to have a cleric of a religion of a different alignment to that religion, and even to go against its tenets. None of the Eberron religions apart from maybe the Undying Court actually have a being worshipped actually able to judge their worshipper.

However the point to bear in mind is that belief is still necessary. A cleric still believes in the religion, and that they are doing its work even when their actions would shock the majority of followers. Its probably due to the individual twisting the concepts, or taking one of the tenets to extremes and ignoring the others. Or they might be part of a splinter church that does so.

Has the character detailed his Oath of Vengeance? He should have at least stated what the evil he has sworn it against is. Was it against his patron?

Pretty much all of the potential patrons are able to appear to the character in dreams or visions, and generally willing to deceive in order to get what they want. If the player wants his character to think that he is married to a goddess, then the character can indeed think that, whether his patron is actually Vol, a demon trapped in the Silver Flame, a Quori or whatever else you might decide it actually is.

One last thought: you might be wanting to consider whether you are willing to allow the Oathbreaker Paladin for PC play. Even if the player isn't actively planning on becoming one for the synergy with Undying One Warlock, there is a chance that it may come up is the character starts ignoring their Oath.

You've been helpful in working out my thoughts on this, thank you!

No, he hasn't detailed his vengeance oath as of yet just what he wants for his warlock patron. I need to query on what he intends for that.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Paladins aren't exclusively tied to gods or alignments anymore, and I like that part quite a bit. Clerics maybe not so much in Eberron but in other worlds I'd agree with you. I've been trying to locate the info I mentioned up thread about clerics not always being the most devoted to all of their god's ideals in Eberron. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the 4e books I have out, guess I need to dig the original campaign setting book for 3.5e out of storage...

This might help:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040705a

I do agree with you on the warlock being tied to their pact, though. They willingly entered into a contract with an otherworldly patron to gain power and I think for the purpose of play, that contract should be a focus of the character and be an important part in the campaign involving the warlock. And I do think that as a contract, if it wasn't going how the Patron wanted they could negate the connection that would allow a warlock's continued growth.

Not necessarily. Its a contract, presumably binding on both parties. The patron may not be able to break it any more than the warlock can.
Who can do what and such is probably dependent upon the wording, which may vary from patron to patron and/or warlock to warlock.

And note that it may not have to be the traditional written scroll signed in blood. The contract could take the form of swearing an Oath or Vow. Perhaps like a Paladin Oath, or a Marriage Vow.

I will have to to disabuse him of the anime connotations though, as that's not even near the theme I want to go with for this game. To each their own but I wouldn't touch an anime theme with a ten foot pole.

Yeah. If he's married to a daelkyr its going to be more of a hentai theme.

 

[Icharbezol]

Yeah. If he's married to a daelkyr its going to be more of a hentai theme.

Why you gotta put that into my head?

 

[Kreinas]

Why you gotta put that into my head?

Daelkyr half-bloods are a thing...