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Warlord Homebrew Collaboration (+) (Create a 5e Warlord)


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TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
Observation: The monk chassis suggests the class should be able to do 13 damage a round (times hit rate), with a ki point adding 5.5 points of damage without an additional action expenditure in Tier 1. Using the same resource schedule suggests the warlord should be able to put out similar damage numbers. The monk's superior mobility and defensive options should probably be transformed into the ability to grant similar defensive advantages to allies, to maintain a rough balance between offense and defense/utility between the classes.

Core questions:
1) What amount of attack granting should the class have? Should it be at the class or subclass level? (I personally favor the "Take the attack action, sacrifice an attack to give an ally an extra attack on their turn" rule, but that's obviously an issue that needs to be answered first and foremost.)

2) What should the core action cycle look like? I'd lean towards Attack as an action, a utility bonus action (possibly linked to or upgraded by subclass), and then a tactic point expenditure to provide additional power or options to the bonus action. This is the closest analogue to the monk cycle, and still feels sufficiently "warlord-y".

3) What are the main stats for the class? Seems like it should be Str/Dex flexible, like most martials, and then maybe a secondary mental stat based on subclass? (Much like the rogue model.)

4) Are warlords proficient in katanas? (Trick question. Katanas are proficient with warlords.)
 


TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
First things (IMO) should be agreement on:

1. Name.
2. HD.
3. Proficiencies.
4. Equipment.
1) This should be easy. :)
2) d8. Seems to be the default for support classes, and lets you slightly increase the power budget of class features. A hit point increase can also be baked into tougher subclasses, much like Draconic Sorcerer.
3) Skills: Pick 3 from Athletics, History, Insight, Animal Handling, Medicine, Perception, Deception, Persuasion, Intimidation. Rogues get 4 skills out of an 11 skill list, monks get 2 out of 6. 3 out of 9 seems a good compromise, warlord seems to be a slightly more skill oriented class.
Saves: I feel like mental makes sense? Int/Wis or Wis/Cha?
Weapon/Armor: Light, Medium, Shields, Simple Weapons feels right to me. Martial Weapons and Heavy Armor make sense as subclass features.
4) Modifed cleric equipment makes sense, assuming medium (possibly heavy) armor and simple weapons.
  • (a) a spear or (b) a rapier (if proficient)
  • (a) scale mail, (b) leather armor, or (c) chain mail (if proficient)
  • (a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
  • (a) a diplomat’s pack or (b) an explorer’s pack
  • a shield
 






TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
Slightly more radical suggestion: Working on the assumption that there may be subclasses that have bonus hit points, increased weapon and armor proficiencies, and subclasses utilize different secondary stats, maybe moving the subclass selection to 1st level would be warranted. I have a pet peeve about subclasses that switch out their weapon and armor use at 3rd level (like Valor Bard).
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Slightly more radical suggestion: Working on the assumption that there may be subclasses that have bonus hit points, increased weapon and armor proficiencies, and subclasses utilize different secondary stats, maybe moving the subclass selection to 1st level would be warranted. I have a pet peeve about subclasses that switch out their weapon and armor use at 3rd level (like Valor Bard).
Worth considering, certainly.

What 3 archetypes should we focus on?

should they be called Archetypes like they are for fighters and rogues?

I vote yes, and I vote for

Vanguard: Prime archetype that leads from the front. Gives group buffs when you attack.

Ritualist: crap name, but this is the magic one. Granted attacks do extra magic damage, can change damage types during short or long rest, or as a ritual?

Tactician: the “lazy” archetype. Enhanced ability to trade personal attacks for ally attacks. Either does so with less cost, or gives greater bonuses when doing so.Usually better use of action than attacking yourself.
 


TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
@doctorbadwolf

+1 for "archetypes". Simple and to the point, no need to get dragged down by nomenclature.

Yea, I think the 3 most obvious are

a) The "ballsy" warlord. Heroic, lead from the front. Heavy armor and martial weapons would fit in here. Less movement support and attack granting, more damage buffs and morale healing. Probably Cha-focused? Vanguard definitely works.

b) The tactical warlord. Direct from the rear. Greater ability to grant attacks with bonuses. More utility with tactical points. Battlemaster style maneuvers with tactical point spending, maybe? Maybe more reaction based abilities (to demonstrate ability to anticipate and react accordingly.) Definitely Int-based.

c) The magical warlord. Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster style casting? Or the ability to cast spells via tactical points (much like 4 Elements Monk, just, ya know, good)? Spells off of the bard spell list would make sense here (less flashy, more healings and buffs). Int or Cha-focused, depending on if the magic is innate or learned. Ritualist would imply Int to me.

I could also see a combination of magical and lazy to make the "princess" style warlord, possibly with Wis-based divine magic.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
@doctorbadwolf

+1 for "archetypes". Simple and to the point, no need to get dragged down by nomenclature.

Yea, I think the 3 most obvious are

a) The "ballsy" warlord. Heroic, lead from the front. Heavy armor and martial weapons would fit in here. Less movement support and attack granting, more damage buffs and morale healing. Probably Cha-focused? Vanguard definitely works.

b) The tactical warlord. Direct from the rear. Greater ability to grant attacks with bonuses. More utility with tactical points. Battlemaster style maneuvers with tactical point spending, maybe? Maybe more reaction based abilities (to demonstrate ability to anticipate and react accordingly.) Definitely Int-based.

c) The magical warlord. Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster style casting? Or the ability to cast spells via tactical points (much like 4 Elements Monk, just, ya know, good)? Spells off of the bard spell list would make sense here (less flashy, more healings and buffs). Int or Cha-focused, depending on if the magic is innate or learned. Ritualist would imply Int to me.

I could also see a combination of magical and lazy to make the "princess" style warlord, possibly with Wis-based divine magic.
100% You are speaking my exact language.
 


TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
I said I wouldn't intervene but .... probably should decide on stuff for the base class before getting into archetypes/subclasses.

I know there's interplay between them, but it's really hard to discuss variations on a design until you have an idea of the design.
Nope, you're absolutely right. Monk is a very focused class, and has a lot of its power baked into its core chassis. If we're sticking with the monk framework, we should mimic that as much as possible.

-The warlord should have a decent attack (or attack grant) as their main action (scaling to Extra Attack at level 5).
-The bonus action should be spent on a baseline offensive or defensive grant to an ally, with riders and bonuses predicated on spending TP (tactical points, if we don't come up with a better name).
-Reactions are either OA (if vanguard) or special reaction abilities (if tactician), but should be subclass based. -Subclasses provide bonuses and riders to these core actions. (Compare to open hand monk boosting flurry of blows, or sun soul monk allowing for ranged flurry.) Magical subclass could alter this core, since they'll be casting spells.

Something like:

1: Archetype feature, Marshal Teamwork (grant attack when you sacrifice attack)
2: Guided Blow (Help as a bonus action, or some other offensive boost to an ally.)
5: Extra Attack
6: Archetype feature (Might vary the extra attack based on subclass. Vanguard gets bonus when they both attack and grant attack to nearby allies, Tactician grants attacks to 2 different allies, Magical maybe allows for ally cantrip cast? Iffy on that, might scale too well.)
 

RSIxidor

Adventurer
Two simple things to get out of the way. 1. Replace Unarmored Defense with light+medium armor arof and shield prof. 2. Give martial weapon prof. (Vanguard archetype could maybe gain heavy armor).

More of a couple of incomplete thoughts here: I think both the Martial Arts die and Unarmored Movement could be modified to use as scaling bonuses for effects. Martial Arts die could be used for stuff like bonuses to attack or damage rolls, THP, or AC buffs. The rest of Martial Arts is likely completely replaced. Unarmored Movement, maybe scaling a little differently, could perhaps be used for abilities that inspire allies to move off turn. (Think Knight's Move from 4E.) I'm not sure if that kind of movement ability makes sense here, but it's a thought.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Nope, you're absolutely right. Monk is a very focused class, and has a lot of its power baked into its core chassis. If we're sticking with the monk framework, we should mimic that as much as possible.

-The warlord should have a decent attack (or attack grant) as their main action (scaling to Extra Attack at level 5).
-The bonus action should be spent on a baseline offensive or defensive grant to an ally, with riders and bonuses predicated on spending TP (tactical points, if we don't come up with a better name).
-Reactions are either OA (if vanguard) or special reaction abilities (if tactician), but should be subclass based. -Subclasses provide bonuses and riders to these core actions. (Compare to open hand monk boosting flurry of blows, or sun soul monk allowing for ranged flurry.) Magical subclass could alter this core, since they'll be casting spells.

Something like:

1: Archetype feature, Marshal Teamwork (grant attack when you sacrifice attack)
2: Guided Blow (Help as a bonus action, or some other offensive boost to an ally.)
5: Extra Attack
6: Archetype feature (Might vary the extra attack based on subclass. Vanguard gets bonus when they both attack and grant attack to nearby allies, Tactician grants attacks to 2 different allies, Magical maybe allows for ally cantrip cast? Iffy on that, might scale too well.)
what if you can grant a damage bonus to someone as a bonus action at Will when you take the attack action, and instead of stunning strike you can take the help action as an attack at level 5?
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
what if you can grant a damage bonus to someone as a bonus action at Will when you take the attack action, and instead of stunning strike you can take the help action as an attack at level 5?
Maybe around a 1d6 to start? Monk is 1d4+3, but the monk's main action attack probably won't be as strong. Help action as attack makes sense, but it would be generally inferior to granting another attack.
 

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